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  1. #61
    Brainier Riir's Avatar
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    Re: Tobirama is Indestructible

    Tobirama is not indestructible. With the Juubi in control, the black fluid-like jutsu is not yet Onmyoudon.
    After Minato's hand did not regenerate, the 2nd realized it is Onmyoudon and Obito and Tobirama explained that jutsu.
     
         

  2. #62
    yondaime hokage4th cmilius's Avatar
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    Re: Tobirama is Indestructible

    I stand against the creator of this thread cause juubito wasn't in full control over juubi when he attacked tobirama and hiruzen.
     
         

  3. #63
    Premium User Xēnovia.'s Avatar
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    Re: Tobirama is Indestructible

    Dat tobirama wank though.
     
         

  4. #64
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    Re: Tobirama is Indestructible

    There are 2 answers of your stupid thread about the MInato's Arm and Tobirama and Hiruzen Regenerate . Plot Hole or Just that Obito didnd used omnyadon when he take down Hiruzen and Tobirama. And everyone told u it is the second one . U tobirama Fans BECAME very RETARDED these days . Too sad Tobirama have to die and be an EDO to be Indestructuble . Minato > Kyubbi>Ginkaku Bros > Tobirama . See Alive Tobirama is fodder . So go on and lets play the fanboys game.
     
         

  5. #65
    DBZ FOR LIFE SharinganisOP's Avatar
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    Re: Tobirama is Indestructible

    Sorry this took me so long to write lol. I started to write it when this topic was more active, but I had to go to class. So i shall be posting this now, even if the topic is winding down. I have also currently been awake for 28 hours, I'm not sure how many grammar/spelling errors there are in this, but please forgive them. Being awake for so long I also may have made a mistake in formatting or argument, please point out if I have done so.

    Hello good sir, I would like to offer a different view point. Tobirama is not invincible and is indeed effected by Onmyoudon. I would also like to offer a different point of view from your own. I say that onmyoudon isn't the black fluid, but is rather infused into it starting after Obito takes full control over the Juubi.

    TL;DR summary in the spoiler below:

    Obito can only use black fluid to attack while his hands are pierced, Obito's hands weren't pierced when hitting Minato. Therefore Obito punched Minato's arm off and infused onmyoudon into his punch. Tobirama also admits fear of Obito's attacks several times, saying they could kill him. Tobirama also warns the edo's not to get hit by Obito anymore with their edo'd bodies. Tobirama, hashirma, and hiruzen recovering from various black fluid attacks is not a plothole, Obito simply didn't have the ability to use onmyoudon at the time.


    This is going to be a long post and critically analyzes the manga, prepare for a lot of reading and pictures.

    These images show that every time Obito attacks or defends with his black fluid, he pierces his hands. (except if it's being used as a bomb or DNA sword/staff). The primary purpose of these images to show that he has to stab through his hands if he is going to use the black fluid to attack, which sets me up for my second set of images. The secondary purpose is to show that Obito attacked hashirama, Tobirama, and Hiruzen with the black fluid and they all regenerate. This suggests that the black fluid is not onmyoudon and just a combination of 4+ elements like Hiruzen said. He does add onmyoudon into the black fluid later though. It is not a plothole, Obito simply didn't have the ability to add onmyoudon to the black fluid yet, and thus Hiruzen, tobirama, and hashirama are all still alive (well still edo):

    Links to images in spoiler tag below, in the second spoiler tag is the images and a breakdown of particular ones I need to go into more detail on or point out something specifically:



    This image shows hashirama and tobirama getting hit by the black fluid. They both then regenerate, this shows that the black fluid hasn't been infused with onmyoudon. Onmyoudon cancels out all ninjutsu. Edo tensei is a ninjutsu, therefore if it didn't cancel out edo tensei, than the black fluid is not onmyoudon.

    They fight while regenerating

    Holes in hands, and hiruzen starts his shuriken shadowclone jutsu

    This image shows a description of the move. if it had onmyoudon properties right now hiruzen would have described it. Also It shows Obito physically cutting through every shuriken. If the black fluid were onmyoudon, wouldn't it just forcibly make the shadow clone dissapear?

    Hiruzen gives a description of what the black fluid is saying it's made of at least four nature transformations

    Shows Obito holding two black fluid balls prepared, could be used as bombs or for attack

    Obito attacks minato with black fluid, Sasuke then stops it next panel with sussano, because he wanted to fight Obito

    Obito opens up a hole in his hand to destory naruto and Sasuke's faces, showing that he needs a hole in his hand to attack

    ] Showing the attacks need to open a hole in his hand

    Even when shooting it as a bomb, it shoots it through a hole in its hand

    Shows that even in his fully conscience state that Obito needs to pierce his hands to attack/defend

    Shows the hole in his hand ready to attack, and it also shows an onmyoudon barrier made by/from his staff

    Obito's hands still needs holes

    Shows senjutsu as his weakness and shows holes in Obito's hands

    More holes in his hands!

    Even more holes in his hands!

    This page is very interesting. He opens a hole in his hand to shoot out spikes that create the 6 point barrier that traps the alliance. It shows a ball surround with energy, perhaps it has a special ability tied to that ball, the other ones might have a special ability as well. then again he could've just chose to use that balls chakra to make the barrier and they all have that ability. It's also possible that maybe you need several of these balls in order to make onmyoudon work (though that is just speculation and theory).

    This shows extra balls can give him more fluid, even if they don't stab him through his hand;however, at least one ball must be piercing his hand

    same as previous

    Shows he can make arms out of the black fluid, if he wants to combine it all, still poking through his hands though

    Shield still pierces his hand, the sword however is held in his hand, like the staff

    His shield is clearly piercing his hand, showing it must have contact through his hand for him to attack or defend with it


    These images show Obito's hands not being pierced by the black fluid. Since they were not pierced by the black fluid, he did not use the black fluid to attack. Obito simply Punched Minato's arm off, and infused his punch with onmyoudon. He then planted the black fluid bomb in Minato's air space (likely forcibly connected to his chakra somehow). Since the black fluid never touched Minato it can be concluded that the black fluid is not the source of onmyoudon, but rather Obito can infuse any technique he so chooses with onmyoudon. This includes taijutsu or even just standing in one spot. This here proves that it was not the black fluid which is the cause of onmyoudon, but rather the black fluid can be infused with onmyoudon.

    Links to images in spoiler tag below, in the second spoiler tag is the images and a breakdown of particular ones I need to go into more detail on or point out something specifically:



    Clearly it shows no hole in Obito's hand in this image, that means that he did not attack with the black fluid

    Obito still didn't have a hole in his hand, had he wanted to he could have obliterated minato by destroying him with the black liquid. Instead Obito did a very fast palm at Minato and took off his arm. While doing this Obito stuck a bomb to him (but not directly to him, it is clearly floating) for the possibillity of more kills and to troll them. Minato being hit by Obito's open palm and not regenerating shows that Obito had infused his palm with onmyoudon, and it isn't the black fluid that is onmyoudon since Obito didn't even touch Minato with it.
    Shows more clearly that he stuck it to him floating in mid air... So it has never really touched him


    More proof as to why onmyoudon isn't the black liquid. Obito gets hit with a rasen shuriken infused with amaterasu. Rasen Shuriken is beast enough on it's own, but with amaterasu that just makes it all the better. Obito didn't even care that it hit him, his black liquid didn't block it for him and he took absolutely no damage. His black shape shifting fluid balls did push amaterasu away from him though, showing they are infused with onmyoudon. Obito also states that he "now" has the power of the so6p, which implies he didn't have it in his prior form when the juubi had most of the control. The second also says that when Obito is guarding his back that if they try that again, they will be annihilated. Annihilated is a pretty hardcore word for Tobirama to say, and is proof enough he will be killed. In these tobirama also states that Obito uses techniques based on onmyoudon. This means that his techniques will be infused with onmyoudon, not that his techniques are onmyoudon.

    Also different translations say different things, in the mangastream translation which is generally more accurate Tobirama clearly states that "we" should be more careful from on in "our" edo tensei bodies. Regardless Tobirama is clearly afraid. He knows that they should no longer be hit, and if they do get hit even as edo they will die. This is in contrast to the juubi controlled Obito where even if they were hurt they would just regenerate. the word we is used much more often in the manga stream versions, which is honestly more trustworthy when it comes to translation. I think you can read the mangastream translations at http://www.onemanga.me/naruto_manga/ if you want to read them. They definitely say we much more often, showing he is also afraid for his life.

    Links to images in spoiler tag below, in the second spoiler tag is the images and a breakdown of particular ones I need to go into more detail on or point out something specifically:



    This shows Obito getting hit with the rasen shuriken-amaterasu combo. It is quite fierce, and as you can see Obito had absolutely no defense. Not a single thing defending him. In fact you can see his defense over by minato. The only thing that could defend him was his staff, which clearly isn't being transformed into anything.

    Look at Obito's face, his defense is over by minato and he doesn't even give a shit about getting hit with one of the most poweful moves in the narutoverse.

    This shows his black fluid balls flying back to Obito.

    This shows his black balls moving the amaterasu away from Obito and destroying the amaterasu. This didn't even need to be done by Obito though. he could have chilled in the fire for 7 days until it extinguished if he wanted to. his body isn't hurt by ninjutsu because of onmyoudon. This panel really shows this to be true, because rasen shuriken would kill or make it impossible to use chakra anymore for any normal person (but thats without the amaterasu added). Even with the amaterasu added you see absolutely no change in Obito's ability to use chakra or even the slightest burn on him from amaterasu. This is proof that his body is immune to ninjutsu because it is infused with onmyoudon. This shows that the black fluid is not onmyoudon, since Obito's body is also protected from ninjutsu (and it is clearly not made of black fluid)

    This image shows Obito hovering gracefully completely unscathed from that beast of an attack. Tobirama also notices Minato's arm

    Obito says that he "now" has the power of the so6p. this implies he didn't have onmyoudon before in his juubi controlled state. Tobirama also explains onmyoudon in this page and says if it hits an edo body you can't recover

    This is the previous picture except the mangastream translation. it uses a lot more we and our, instead of you. This shows that tobirama knew he was vulnerable as well. Instead of "now" in the mangapanda version it uses "I have attained", which means that he didn't have it before.

    Tobirama finishes his sentence, and says you will die if you are killed by his moves

    This is the previous picture except it's the mangastream translation. Once again uses more of we instead of you.

    Tobirama says that it will annihilate us, pretty harsh use of words.

    Same picture as previous, but the mangastream version. Instead he says that he will "eviscerate me", which sounds like an admittance of non-invulnerabillity to me from both translations

     
         

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