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  1. #1
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    For the Cataracts

    Danjou waits patiently for the return of his childhood idol to take him further in his clan arts.
     
         

  2. #2
    キッスランド Madāra Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Sorry, took a LONG time

    Anyway, this is 3T training for the first time, no?
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    2T -_- and yes, first time.
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    2T? Okay, excellent. I entrust you have already underwent the explanation over the Sharingan's powers, it's holders, etc etc during your first training session so I will keep it short here. ^^ You can read the entire thing in the spoiler at the bottom.

    The Sharingan is one of the three great doujutsus alongside the Byakugan, and the Rinnegan. Most of it's power level is determined by how many dots or "tomoes" that are shown in the eye when activated, the Sharingan has multiple abilities gained from 1 Tomoe to 3 Tomoe, which are seeing the chakra flow, genjutsu related abilities and tracking and prediction abilities. Upon reaching the stages of Mangekyo Sharingan, these abilities' power increase, making one capable of tracking faster movements and even casting powerful jutsu of the eyes themselves, the most common of these beings Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susano'o, the more powerful of the three. There exist another stage of the Sharingan, even stronger than the Mangekyo, which deteriorates over time. Upon taking another Uchiha's Mangekyo Sharingan and replacing the original with them, the holder awakens what is known as the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. This stage is powerful enough to even control the Tailed Beast and grant one the power of a God. Or at least very powerful anyway. A few things each stage of the Sharingan have in common are the abilities of seeing chakra flow, genjutsu related powers, and tracking and prediction abilities.

    Now, the abilities granted in the second tomoe of the Sharingan are below:

    Two Tomoe Sharingan
    • Tracking speeds higher than that of the one Tomoe Sharingan, up to the second gate speeds
    • higher clarity of perception than that of the one tomoe stage.
    • Predicting ninjutsu and Taijutsu movements
    • Copying Taijutsu techniques.
    • Tracking handseal usage
    • Breaking through C-rank and below visual genjutsu techniques.


    Now, we'll be going through them in two sessions here: First the tracking abilities. The 2 Tomoe is capable of tracking speeds of up to double the enemy's movement, equivalent to 2nd Gate speeds and able to track chakra as well. This being said, the first one you will experience how to find me in different environments, using the Sharingan while i hide, tracking me through the trail of chakra i leave behind, intentionally for you to find, or through the slightest movements, in air currents, dust, tree branches, water droplets, etc etc. This training helps you develop the insight ability of your Sharingan, and the second one will be more about developing the hypnosis part, as you might be aware, the Sharingan's abilities are divided in two categories: the ability of insight, which pertains to tracking purposes, chakra flow, movement tracking, prediction, and the Hypnosis ability pertains to Sharingan genjutsu casting through the eyes, advanced genjutsu, and copying techniques. Now lets start the first training session shall we?


    *disappears into the forest*



    ✦ Uchiha Madara's Sharingan Doujutsu Speech/Guide/Essay/[insert other words]/letter/etc ✦




    First, that needs a new name >.>' Second, The Sharingan is one of the three great doujutsus alongside the Byakugan, and the Rinnegan. Most of it's power level is determined by how many dots or "tomoes" that are shown in the eye when activated, the Sharingan has multiple abilities gained from 1 Tomoe to 3 Tomoe, which are seeing the chakra flow, genjutsu related abilities and tracking and prediction abilities. Upon reaching the stages of Mangekyo Sharingan, these abilities' power increase, making one capable of tracking faster movements and even casting powerful jutsu of the eyes themselves, the most common of these beings Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susano'o, the more powerful of the three. There exist another stage of the Sharingan, even stronger than the Mangekyo, which deteriorates over time. Upon taking another Uchiha's Mangekyo Sharingan and replacing the original with them, the holder awakens what is known as the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. This stage is powerful enough to even control the Tailed Beast and grant one the power of a God. Or at least very powerful anyway. A few things each stage of the Sharingan have in common are the abilities of seeing chakra flow, genjutsu related powers, and tracking and prediction abilities.

    First is regarding the chakra flow as that is the basic Sharingan ability and is reached when activating the 2 Tomoe Sharingan. This power isn't in the 1 Tomoe because when the Sharingan is in 1 Tomoe, it's considered an incomplete stage. The Sharingan can see the chakra located in anything that has chakra within it and is able to differentiate between them by "coloring" each person's chakra different, meaning that people's chakra color vary when you see it with the Sharingan. As a result of seeing this flow, doubled with the high clarity of perception that the Sharingan grants the user, the Sharingan has also the ability to differentiate between the basic 5 chakra natures, because each elemental chakra has a unique feature to it that makes it noticeable by the Sharingan. lThis is demonstrated within the five elemental releases: Fire chakra is, by nature, very hot therefore affecting the color pattern. Wind chakra consists of thin, sharp blades whereas Lightning chakra vibrates rapidly. Earth chakra, on the other hand, is very dense, which causes the chakra to appear dense, darkening the chakra's color. Water chakra slows in a freer motion than that of wind and lightning. Therefore, it is possible for the Sharingan to easily decipher the nature of chakra. However, this is only unlocked when the Third Tomoe appears in the Sharingan eyes. As a result of seeing the chakra flow of a person, the Sharingan is able to understand how the normal chakra network flows. Due to this, a Sharingan is able to detect inversely when a chakra flow is altered, flowing in a different way than expected. This allows the Sharingan to be able to detect genjutsus cast upon the host or those around it. The Sharingan cannot penetrate chakra, meaning that when a chakra flow is present in front of the Sharingan it can see past it no matter how faint or dense the chakra is which explains why the Sharingan is often bested inside the Hidden Mist Jutsu. However, the Sharingan is capable of seeing through thin walls that contain no chakra in them to a certain extent, like for example it can see chakra right below the surface of the ground, but it can't see chakra deep within the ground.

    The second trait of the Sharingan stages are genjutsu related abilities of the Sharingan. As said above, the Sharingan is capable of determining the genjutsu when it happens by watching the irregular chakra flow. In addition to that, the Sharingan is capable of piercing through visual genjutsu of B-rank and below in case of 3 Tomoe Sharingan. What defines the genjutsu technique to be a visual one is it's features, like for example genjutsu that affects your eye sight making you see false illusionary images that aren't real. If a part of the genjutsu or all of it fools your sight, then your Sharingan can pierce through that genjutsu according to the rank. However, genjutsus that affect only your hearing or touch are not considered visual genjutsus and are not breakable by the Sharingan. However, breaking through visual genjutsus doesn't mean that the Sharingan can only identify visual genjutsu. It identifies all kinds of genjutsu through the chakra flow. The Sharingan can break through B-rank and below visual genjutsu, but that doesn't mean that the Sharingan user is immune to that level of genjutsu when used against him, the Sharingan often takes a second or two to break the genjutsu, depending on how powerful your Sharingan is by the tomoe level and such, meaning that the genjutsu will affect you for only a moment, but the next moment your Sharingan will break free of it. When encountering a genjutsu technique, you can't just assume that the Sharingan knows it; you have to clearly describe how you know it's a genjutsu in this case by saying that the Sharingan sees the irregular chakra flow and therefore knows that this is a genjutsu. When achieving the 3 Tomoe Sharingan level, you receive a new ability which is casting genjutsu through your Sharingan eyes. The genjutsu casted with the Sharingan is extremely fast, but of course has a drawback: Not only would one require a clear path to his target or looking into their eyes, many will not work, excluding those which are clearly said to not require eye contact.

    The third ability of the Sharingan is the tracking and prediction/copying abilities. The Sharingan has the ability to slow down the movements when you are looking at them, meaning the movements will happen a lot slower to you than they are in reality. This doesn't mean that the speed is literally slowed down, you just see it slowed down with your Sharingan, which gives you higher reaction times when encountering fast movements, You also have to remember that for you to keep up with high speeds "normally", your body has to have the same speed of the target. You can see it, but your body doesn't have the speed capacity to keep up with it. As a result of high speed tracking and high clarity of perception your Sharingan is able to catch the slightest movement that's done by your opponent, even an ear twitch, making the Sharingan a great asset in close ranged fights. Also, the Sharingan is capable of predicting ninjutsu techniques that's done by your opponent, which have some conditions to using: first, you have to have clear vision of his handseal usage and second, you have to have encountered or know the technique that he's using previously in order to know which exact technique he is going to use without him even using it. This works for all cannon techniques once you master them, therefore you would be capable of predicting each and every cannon technique before they happen and therefore have more reaction times. For custom techniques you must have encountered the technique before or know it. Keep in mind that while you know the technique happening, you can't possibly react before it's done, meaning to use a technique before your opponent uses his justifying it by you knowing what technique he is going to use, in our RP this defies the timeframe rule. Your Sharingan is also capable of predicting Taijutsu movements according to the movement patterns of the body and reacting to it accordingly making the sharingan a very deadly weapon when fighting hand to hand users.

    Now onto the abilities of each level of the Sharingan:

    One Tomoe Sharingan
    • Tracking speeds higher than the human eye can perceive, up to the first gate speeds
    • Breaking through of D-rank visual genjutsu techniques
    • See the Chakra flow

    Two Tomoe Sharingan
    • Tracking speeds higher than that of the one Tomoe Sharingan, up to the second gate speeds
    • higher clarity of perception than that of the one tomoe stage.
    • Predicting ninjutsu and Taijutsu movements
    • Copying Taijutsu techniques.
    • Tracking handseal usage
    • Breaking through C-rank and below visual genjutsu techniques.

    Three Tomoe Sharingan
    • Tracking speeds higher than the previous stages, up to the third gate speeds
    • Seeing the chakra flow with a higher perception, determining each and every chakra nature of the basic 5 elements
    • Higher clarity of perception than the previous stages.
    • Copying ninjutsu and Taijutsu techniques
    • Predicting Ninjutsu and Taijutsu techniques as well as handseal usage easier than the previous stages.
    • Breaking through B-rank and below visual genjutsu techniques.
    • Casting eye genjutsu techniques through the Sharingan

    Mangekyō Sharingan
    • Tracking higher speeds of all the previous stages, up to the fifth gate speeds.
    • Seeing the chakra flow and different forms of chakra
    • Higher clarity of perception than the previous stages
    • Copying ninjutsu and Taijutsu techniques.
    • Predicting Ninjutsu and taijutsu techniques and tracking handseals much easier than the previous stages.
    • Breaking through A-rank and below visual genjutsu techniques.
    • Casting eye genjutsu techniques through the Mangekyō Sharingan
    • The birth of new ninjutsu and genjutsu abilities, according to each Mangekyō Sharingan user.
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    In regard to your rant at the end. The activation of the Sharingan at any level I thought gave one the ability to percieve chakra in any source that contains it. In the Sharingan rules, one tome gives people the ability to see chakra and understand it, at least as implied, for the different sorts of natures one can see. As well as the irregularities caused by genjutsu that disrupt natural flow and even differentiating chakra natures. There is no real indication as to the level at which one can see, discern chakra type, or understand chakra flow between the stages of the Sharingan. It only gives a blanket "can perceive and see chakra" in first tome, which would lead one to believe that during the first tome they can do everything you said in the second paragraph

    Third paragraph, I have a question about the visual genjutsu piercing. Is that ability to see through the genjtusu a passive way of breaking the visual illusions. For example, I have 3tome and somebody casts Constricting Snake, which has an element of visual which constitutes it as a visual genjutsu. To say, my Sharingan would see through it, would that be a passive way of breaking out of the illusion? Also, in regards to being able to sense any sort of genjutsu, I just wanted to make it clear, as with all sensory based abilities that sense chakra. One cannot automatically determine that they themselves are under a genjutsu or rather, they cannot just say they look and see their chakra is disturbed thus is a genjutsu. The Sharingan is not all seeing of everything around them, it's is all dependant on their field of vision, as is with Chakra sensors. What I'm saying is, if you are looking at somebody, you cannot be focused on your own chakra flow and just automatically see or sense your chakra disrupted, you need to first shift focus, which would requires valid reason for why you just suddenly decide to check your chakra, and notice the fluctuation and then say, because of that fluctuation you understand you're in a genjutsu. Many people just activate sensory or Sharingan or Byakugan and say "I see my own chakra is disrupted so I'm under a genjutsu" and just proceed to deal with it, which is wrong. If your focus is somewhere else you have to shift it to yourself before saying you can see your chakra. This even goes for Byakugan users as, they themselves act as the center point for their 360 vision, they themselves are not included unless shifted to.

    Now then, what am I going to be doing for my exercise to track your movements?
     
         

  6. #6
    キッスランド Madāra Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Well, technically yes you can. When I started making that, I based it upon my original Sharingan training, which was over a year ago, when I had lesser knowledge then than now. I was originally taught that the 1T wouldn't be able to see chakra, so I started compiling a list/guide of my own to use and after I verified it with Scorps that you can see chakra with it, I never edited the guide, sorry.

    Regarding the third paragraph, it is more or less a passive release, yes. This is done through channeling chakra to your eyes, upon reasoning properly that you are in a genjutsu of course. As you said, a valid reason is always needed and the Sharingan is no exception. In most chances, one is not watching his own body but instead the enemy and cannot see their own chakra flow in most cases, unless their arms are somehow raised in front of them, but that doesn't mean this can be done without valid reason either. Once you reasoned that you are indeed within a genjutsu, you then channel chakra to your eyes to dispel the genjutsu. Visual genjutsu are genjutsu that are aimed to create an illusionary effect aimed mainly as a way to confuse the visual of an enemy, hence the term. Constricting Snakes is more or less a Visionary Genjutsu as well as a Binding one, which is what I see it as. Granted, it does have visual properties aimed to confuse your sight, but since the main effect is to bind the enemy, I look at it as a binding genjutsu, though you obviously have more skill in this field than I.

    Now! On to training. What you are to do is simple. I disappeared into the forest, leaving behind small traces of chakra that you are to pick up on and track and locate me. Your Sharingan, as I clarified earlier, is able to see traces of chakra, though not through particularly thick environments, hence the small traces of chakra here and there that you have to pick up and follow. Now, I may leave trails that take into a dead end, which is why you must also use other traits of the Sharingan to find me, namely your enhanced sense of perception and precognitive skills, viewing small discrepancies that most would overlook, such as small movements of branches and bushes that indicate something may have passed through them. This coupled with your sharingan should be enough to locate me.

    *makes 3 clones that likewise hide in various bushes*

    All of me.
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Genjutsu fools the five senses. Some can affect them all while others can affect moderate some and not all. I had this convo with Ryujin at some point. Anything that contains a visual component to the genjutsu is considered a visual genjutsu. regardless of it's purpose to restrain, make the body feel, hear, or sense something false if there is some sort of image it is a visual. That being said most, if not all canon techniques are visual genjutsu and can be broken with 3tome (aside from A-rank). Only one I'd go on a limb and say isn't one would be the A-ranked Temple of Nirvana. It makes feathers appear but to my knowledge those were actual feathers and the hypnosis of the technique isn't visual. Nidaime Mizukage's technique would also be an exception since the medium for his jutsu is different, an Uchiha would't be able to see through it and break it like normal.
    ____________

    As you disappear in the forest with your three clones Danjou activates his Sharingan and watches as they head into the forest. He keeps an eye on their exact location until they disappear during his shifting of his eyes from one clone to the other. Danjou payed close attention to the direction each clone and the origional Madara went in before he lost visuals. He took out three individual kunai and decided he'd go after them one at a time, starting with the first one he lost sight off.

    He saw past the obvious signs of chakra lingering in the trees as the clones he looked for had stayed along the ground. Danjou walked into the forest following the more subtle trails, deducing the real paths would likely be hidden. Through one of the bushes, still as a rock he saw a central chakra force and he launched one of his kunai into it, hitting one of the hidden clones.

    He went through the same process for the second clone and found him in another bush along the ground a few dozen meters northewest of the first clone's position. With the last one Danjou decided to go along the most obvious chakra trail.

    "Where else better to hide than in plain sight where your opponent least expects you."

    Danjou said to himself. He took the gamble and he shot his kunai into another one of the bushes to catch another clone. All that was left was the true Madara. The chakra signals from the clones vanished when they did which only left the trails left by the real Madara. It took Danjou a while; the difficulty in finding the real one was greater due to the amount of time he had to plant false leads.

    "Madara-sama..." Danjou found the real Madara laying standing nonchalantly behind a tree in the forest, waiting for his pupil.
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Genjutsu fools the five senses. Some can affect them all while others can affect moderate some and not all. I had this convo with Ryujin at some point. Anything that contains a visual component to the genjutsu is considered a visual genjutsu. regardless of it's purpose to restrain, make the body feel, hear, or sense something false if there is some sort of image it is a visual. That being said most, if not all canon techniques are visual genjutsu and can be broken with 3tome (aside from A-rank). Only one I'd go on a limb and say isn't one would be the A-ranked Temple of Nirvana. It makes feathers appear but to my knowledge those were actual feathers and the hypnosis of the technique isn't visual. Nidaime Mizukage's technique would also be an exception since the medium for his jutsu is different, an Uchiha would't be able to see through it and break it like normal.
    ____________

    As you disappear in the forest with your three clones Danjou activates his Sharingan and watches as they head into the forest. He keeps an eye on their exact location until they disappear during his shifting of his eyes from one clone to the other. Danjou payed close attention to the direction each clone and the origional Madara went in before he lost visuals. He took out three individual kunai and decided he'd go after them one at a time, starting with the first one he lost sight off.

    He saw past the obvious signs of chakra lingering in the trees as the clones he looked for had stayed along the ground. Danjou walked into the forest following the more subtle trails, deducing the real paths would likely be hidden. Through one of the bushes, still as a rock he saw a central chakra force and he launched one of his kunai into it, hitting one of the hidden clones.

    He went through the same process for the second clone and found him in another bush along the ground a few dozen meters northewest of the first clone's position. With the last one Danjou decided to go along the most obvious chakra trail.

    "Where else better to hide than in plain sight where your opponent least expects you."

    Danjou said to himself. He took the gamble and he shot his kunai into another one of the bushes to catch another clone. All that was left was the true Madara. The chakra signals from the clones vanished when they did which only left the trails left by the real Madara. It took Danjou a while; the difficulty in finding the real one was greater due to the amount of time he had to plant false leads.

    "Madara-sama..." Danjou found the real Madara laying standing nonchalantly behind a tree in the forest, waiting for his pupil.
    Im going to have to disagree with you on this. Even Temple of Nirvana has a visual element as the feathers may be real, but they are still an effect of the genjutsu, as all who see those feathers tend to succumb to their effects, which implies it is the feathers themself that cause the genjutsu. There are three "main" fields of Genjutsu, Doujutsu Genjutsu, Sound Genjutsu, and normal Genjutsu, and true enough the Sharingan is able to see through any Visual based Illusion. I myself do not use it against Genjutsus that have the intent to bind as I feel those genjutsus are binding genjutsu, and not solely visual, giving an additional element to them, similar to how you, lili, and scorps classified the types of jutsus in each element seperately. This seems to be as of now, a difference in opinion and until the official ruling is worked out, I always tell students itd be best to use a secondary way to break the illusions that are binding.

    ____________

    As Madara is found, he looks over, watching Danjou intently. Looking him in the eye, Madara's eyes lowered, caused the surroundings to slowly change, as if panning out. The closer Danjout walked, the further away Madara appeared to him as the surrounding trees seemed to close in on him greatly, limiting his view of him. In actuality, Madara stood and slowly grabbed a kunai, throwing it towards Danjou, all the while observing his chakra system.


    (Magen: Kokoni Arazu no Jutsu ) - Demonic Illusion: False Surroundings Technique
    Rank: D
    Type: Supplementary
    Range: Short-Mid
    Chakra Cost: 10 (+5 if you use it double)
    Damage Points: N/A
    Description: The user casts an illusion over an area that allows him to manipulate the way an area looks to fool an opponent. He can only change the way the terrain looks, and not any other feature.
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    When we see the technique released in the series the feathers to not disappear rather they move away from the afflicted person. When Sakura, Gai, and Kakashi did this the feathers moved away when they used kai almost as if the sudden burst of chakra moved them away. This is what felt me to believe that this was not a visually afflicting genjutsu. The genjutsu itself affects and merely uses feathers as a medium to capture attention in order to put people in a hypnosis. Visual based genjutsu normally encompass techniques that affect the visual stimuli which Nirvana does not, it merely uses a catalyst, that we don't even know is actually an illusion or not. Take the Butterfly technique. The technique uses real explosive tags transformed into butterflies. There is an actual entity there but it is disguised. When the illusion is released the actal explosive do not disappear just what they appear to be as the visual stimuli affect is worn off.

    There are arguably more or less fields of genjutsu. If we look at sound jutsu, sound is only a different medium of casting, using one of the five senses. Any of the five senses can be used as a catalyst. Lili is even working on a taste oriented genjutsu (dont' ask read you CC idea). So we could even expand that out to say Taste, Physical (which would likely be ZK and Scorps' gentai examples), etc. Or we could take those and the sound based genjutsu and place them under sensory genjutsu which sounds better lol. Though canon context wise, those are the big three
    __________

    As Danjou walks he begins to visually see the field changing around him. Though he walks closer to Madara, it appears to him that he's getting further and further away. The panning out of the field became obvious to Danjou that he was under the spell of an illusion. With his Sharingan active, with such a low level technique Danjou saw right through the guise, piercing the illusion with his eyes and releasing it. Everything would appear back to normal and Danjou would see how close he was getting as well as Madara throwing the kunai. Danjou placed his and out and caught the weapon between his fingers before they came too close to his face.
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    *kicks Madara in the groin from behind and shoves him to the side*

    OHAI!!!!! I'm...hum... UUTBBITF! Pleased to meet you! *bows slightly*

    That is wrong. But since you seem to not have a real skill towards Genjutsu, lets try something else. Try to find me... *UUTBBITF does 5 handseals in a blazing fast sequence and disappears in a mayhem of flower petals that surround his student, confusing him*


    _____

    UUTBBITF = Unknown Uchiha To Be Born In The Future

    Also, the way you describe how you pierce through the illusion is not entirely correct. Try again and think about it. Its an illusion.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Give me a hint, just how exactly does the Sharingan work in piercing through visual genjutsu? Is it through recognizing the chakra inside the technique and having the Sharingan see past it, i.e dispelling it or by my ability to recognize the visual abnormalities my Sharingan would see through it? Or something else. Give me a push in the right direction please.
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: For the Cataracts

    I'll simply say "Clarity of Perception". It has nothing to do with chakra or discrepancies.

    Think of it like this: Sharingan = enhanced eyes. Genjutsu = techniques that fool your senses. Eyes = Senses. So, Sharingan is "harder" to fool when it comes to visual illusions than normal eyes so they can pierce through it. They can see past the illusion because they "see better". They can perceive things better and with more clarity. Deidara proved this when he trained his regular eye into being able to see through illusions. He did so by bettering his vision. As his eye saw more and better than a normal eye, it could see past an illusion.

    In how its done, you simply focus and see through the illusion in an almost instant manner. Its instinctive. You can simply say "As I see X situation my eyes aren't fooled. They see past the illusion and break it, revealing reality". The moment you associate it with Chakra Visual Perception you are open to the clear argument: an illusion isn't made of chakra nor are you seeing your own body so there is no chakra to make you see past the illusion.

    Hope I explained it correctly. Its something that no one really understands but I think my educated guess is correct.
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps View Post
    I'll simply say "Clarity of Perception". It has nothing to do with chakra or discrepancies.

    Think of it like this: Sharingan = enhanced eyes. Genjutsu = techniques that fool your senses. Eyes = Senses. So, Sharingan is "harder" to fool when it comes to visual illusions than normal eyes so they can pierce through it. They can see past the illusion because they "see better". They can perceive things better and with more clarity. Deidara proved this when he trained his regular eye into being able to see through illusions. He did so by bettering his vision. As his eye saw more and better than a normal eye, it could see past an illusion.

    In how its done, you simply focus and see through the illusion in an almost instant manner. Its instinctive. You can simply say "As I see X situation my eyes aren't fooled. They see past the illusion and break it, revealing reality". The moment you associate it with Chakra Visual Perception you are open to the clear argument: an illusion isn't made of chakra nor are you seeing your own body so there is no chakra to make you see past the illusion.

    Hope I explained it correctly. Its something that no one really understands but I think my educated guess is correct.
    Simply put, when you're inside a genjutsu of sufficiently low rank, as per the rules of the sharingan you're utilizing, you are able to see past the visual illusions the genjutsu pertains to. The best cannon visualization I can give you is in the Chunnin Exams, when Sasuke used his sharingan to see through the Clone illusion by the Mist guys. That one was a purely visual genjutsu, so he pierced it right away, the way he did it was by seeing a clear chakra outline with each illusion, signaling it's fake. Given that, with sharingan, you're able to see both in the x-ray chakra manner and the super acuity light manner, the visual genjutsu piercing is related to the first one.

    Now, in genjutsu that have other effects, not just visual, you are able to pierce only through their visual aspect. This obviously allows you to clearly see you're in a genjutsu, just by looking at the effects the genjutsu shows you, but does not block the genjutsu,because the other parts will still be in effect. You are required to deal with the genjutsu as normal, just with the added bonus that you know, right away, exactly what is real and what is not.
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Oh so now that you don't have the responsibility as a sensei you want to help me with the Sharingan, is that it Okaasan ;_; your love hurts sometimes you know that. I'd rather your usual cynical deception with a lack of emotion and cuddling.

    And it makes sense to me now. The Sharingan plainly see's past the illusion with the superior vision it has almost as though the illusion didn't happen. Not to say it doesn't, but after the illusion is cast, given the appropriate rank and level of strength of the Sharingan, once the affects happen the strong vision will simply see through it and negate the illusion's effects (visual ones anyway).

    Now I just have a question concerning a canon genjutsu and since you're Mr. Jutsu man you should be able to answer this one clearly for me. Every technique in the canon right now is technically a visual genjutsu; a genjutsu cast normally that has visual properties. Things like Sound Based genjutsu, and jutsu that affect senses other than sight (tactile, hearing, smell) or is cast through a sustained medium (like elemental genjutsu) can't be pierced by the Sharingan. However there is one technique that I'm not sure about being visual or not.

    The Temple of Nirvana Technique

    This is A-ranked meaning only MS grade would be able to pierce it, if it was a visual jutsu however, but I don't think it is. MU believed the jutsu was a visual based genjutsu because there was the utilization of feathers. However in the series when we see Kakashi and the others release the genjutsu, the feathers dont' disappear but rather it appears that they just are pushed away by the discharge of chakra from genjutsu Kai. To me I believe this is a hypnotic genjutsu, one that works similar to the Sharingan by, not neccesarily affecting the senses in a way that gives false images or occurrences but manipulates a factor in the mind that hypnotizes them and puts them to sleep. It wouldn't be a visual genjutsu for that reason but rather a hypnotic one.

    And at that, I have a question about custom submissions along that line. We've seen genjutsu used twice on occasion, that was not Sharingan that uses hypnotism or simply puts one in a state of where their mind and body are intercepted by the will of the caster; the first being this illusion the second being the illusion used on Rin in Kakashi Gaiden by the Iwagakure shinobi to get her to reveal information. Would genjutsu such as these, within reason, be approvable if submitted as customs without necessarily having a Sharingan?

    We even have it part of the wiki that genjutsu works in more ways that stringently on the five senses as genjutsu by it's core principle affects and manipulates the mind. It deals with Yin the spiritual side which has more than that application. I understand that allowing such means would create some problems since there is the potential to have techniques be completely unreasonable, however hypnotic based illusions can be implemented rather safely and reasonably with a time table attached to them (turn duration for a complete success) and restrictions. To be quite honest, this would be something I'd like to discuss with you later.
     
         
    Last edited by Reborn; 03-29-2014 at 05:34 PM.

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Oh so now that you don't have the responsibility as a sensei you want to help me with the Sharingan, is that it Okaasan ;_; your love hurts sometimes you know that. I'd rather your usual cynical deception with a lack of emotion and cuddling.

    And it makes sense to me now. The Sharingan plainly see's past the illusion with the superior vision it has almost as though the illusion didn't happen. Not to say it doesn't, but after the illusion is cast, given the appropriate rank and level of strength of the Sharingan, once the affects happen the strong vision will simply see through it and negate the illusion's effects (visual ones anyway).

    Now I just have a question concerning a canon genjutsu and since you're Mr. Jutsu man you should be able to answer this one clearly for me. Every technique in the canon right now is technically a visual genjutsu; a genjutsu cast normally that has visual properties. Things like Sound Based genjutsu, and jutsu that affect senses other than sight (tactile, hearing, smell) or is cast through a sustained medium (like elemental genjutsu) can't be pierced by the Sharingan. However there is one technique that I'm not sure about being visual or not.

    The Temple of Nirvana Technique

    This is A-ranked meaning only MS grade would be able to pierce it, if it was a visual jutsu however, but I don't think it is. MU believed the jutsu was a visual based genjutsu because there was the utilization of feathers. However in the series when we see Kakashi and the others release the genjutsu, the feathers dont' disappear but rather it appears that they just are pushed away by the discharge of chakra from genjutsu Kai. To me I believe this is a hypnotic genjutsu, one that works similar to the Sharingan by, not neccesarily affecting the senses in a way that gives false images or occurrences but manipulates a factor in the mind that hypnotizes them and puts them to sleep. It wouldn't be a visual genjutsu for that reason but rather a hypnotic one.

    And at that, I have a question about custom submissions along that line. We've seen genjutsu used twice on occasion, that was not Sharingan that uses hypnotism or simply puts one in a state of where their mind and body are intercepted by the will of the caster; the first being this illusion the second being the illusion used on Rin in Kakashi Gaiden by the Iwagakure shinobi to get her to reveal information. Would genjutsu such as these, within reason, be approvable if submitted as customs without necessarily having a Sharingan?

    We even have it part of the wiki that genjutsu works in more ways that stringently on the five senses as genjutsu by it's core principle affects and manipulates the mind. It deals with Yin the spiritual side which has more than that application. I understand that allowing such means would create some problems since there is the potential to have techniques be completely unreasonable, however hypnotic based illusions can be implemented rather safely and reasonably with a time table attached to them (turn duration for a complete success) and restrictions. To be quite honest, this would be something I'd like to discuss with you later.
    Remote Hypnotic Techniques are limited to making you sleep. There are already a ton of those. There's only two other ways to explore Hypnotic techniques. The first one is through Direct Contact, which are the techniques along the line of Interrogation. These can make you sleep as a side effect, but serve to pry into your opponent's mind. There are also a couple of custom techniques of these, but they're all restricted to close contact (And it's hard to find something different that hasn't been yet approved). The second way is through Sharigan's natural Hypnotic abilities, and it's a pretty much freeform hypnosis and it's much more that just making you sleep, so you don't really need a custom. They're banned anyway, except for the Custom MS techniques.

    Hypnosis as a pure Genjutsu can only be achieved in such manner. Other forms of Hypnosis can deal with, say poisons, toxins, chemicals, pheromones, etc, which ally physiology with genjutsu in order to manipulate your senses and make you react the way they want you to react. Otherwise, it is completely forbidden from the custom submission.

    #hijackingMandy
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    More like, hijacking Scorps since we already threw Mandy away.

    And I want to discuss it with Scorps because, as it is now canon genjutsu is like canon ninjutu, it sucks. And it really isn't hard to implement hypnotic gen into the system without Sharingan and without making it unreasonable.
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    More like, hijacking Scorps since we already threw Mandy away.

    And I want to discuss it with Scorps because, as it is now canon genjutsu is like canon ninjutu, it sucks. And it really isn't hard to implement hypnotic gen into the system without Sharingan and without making it unreasonable.
    You won't get a different answer, just a more unsophisticated and primitive one.
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Better to hear it from somebody I can trust miss deceit.

    If you're going to be here spamming my thread, at least answer my question about Temple of Nirvana
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Better to hear it from somebody I can trust miss deceit.

    If you're going to be here spamming my thread, at least answer my question about Temple of Nirvana
    You answered it yourself. The feathers are just visual decoration, the genjutsu itself is an hypnotic mantle. Not pierce-able by sharingan.
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    I just wanted a second opinion because Mandy was being stupid.
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    Well, you're stupider

    *drops the mic*
     
         

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    Re: For the Cataracts

    you're stupidest

    *Picks the mic up and drops it again*

    Bish
     
         

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