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  1. #1
    Leaf anbu Wolfus's Avatar
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    "Don't like, don't read"

    Hi, everyone. I'm here to criticize some classic comments made by many people.
    These 2 comments are: "don't like, don't read/watch/listen" and "can't do better, STFU". I'm doing this because such comments have appeared quite too much here on the base and they are very annoying.

    To criticize, one doesn't have to do better, one must have arguments and evidences to suport an idea. One must have knowledge about the subject. A criticism is based on an analysis of what is being criticized. With the analysis, the arguments can be based on facts, on the very characteristics of the object. Then, they will be used in order to suport or disprove an idea. This is how criticism works. If something is bad, it is bad, no matter who made it, no matter who is saying it.

    Now, If one dislikes something in a series or in anything, he/she has the right to criticize it. Criticism is a right, don't forget this. The only thing that can't be done is to disrespect. Criticizing doesn't mean one has to stop watching/reading what he/she is criticizing. Disliking 1 characteristic doesn't mean disliking everything of the subject. This only means that the person won't accept any sh*t thrown at him/her, and he/she will actually criticize it to show what might be even a mistake, not only a personal taste.

    With this, I show that such affirmatives are a childish mistake of people who don't understand criticism, people who have 0 knowledge on criticism.
    So, let's grow up and stop these stupid comments.
     
         

  2. #2
    The Snape of Naruto Snape Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    I agree. If someone criticized the way Kishimoto writes, he/she is within his or her rights.
    If someone says "this maga sucks it is the worst ever etc." then he is just trolling and being annoying and should just not read it.
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    No
    I disagree completely
    If you don't know anything about anything then what gives you the right to disrespect anything?
     
         

  4. #4
    Senior Member Yusuke Urameshi's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    What if I was to say, "Naruto (the manga/anime) sucks. It could've been written much, much, much better, especially if Oda was the one writing it"?

    *waits for Shape to call me a troll*
     
         

  5. #5
    You will burn Veritas. Sir Blades of Chaos's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Too long Didnt read.

    On all seriousness, i appreciate the concern but all the trolls arent gonna change.
     
         

  6. #6
    The Snape of Naruto Snape Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    No
    I disagree completely
    If you don't know anything about anything then what gives you the right to disrespect anything?
    To criticize, one doesn't have to do better, one must have arguments and evidences to suport an idea. One must have knowledge about the subject.
    He acknowledged that point.
     
         

  7. #7
    Senior Member rollin's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    i kind of see what youre getting at
    but most people act like they are some kind of great mangaka and there giving mangakas tips on how to right a manga
    when in fact they don't know what theyre talking about at all
     
         

  8. #8
    القاتل من الموت xAj's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    This is soooo true!! + rep
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    No
    I disagree completely
    If you don't know anything about anything then what gives you the right to disrespect anything?
    This logic is flawed regardless, even though he already mentioned something in response to this.
     
         

  10. #10
    Leaf anbu Wolfus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    No
    I disagree completely
    If you don't know anything about anything then what gives you the right to disrespect anything?
    Obviously you didn't read. I clearly said that one must not disrespect. To criticize is a right, a part of our freedom of speech.
    I already explained the concept of criticism above, read the thread before posting things.

    Quote Originally Posted by rollin View Post
    i kind of see what youre getting at
    but most people act like they are some kind of great mangaka and there giving mangakas tips on how to right a manga
    when in fact they don't know what theyre talking about at all
    It's like I said. To criticize is different from just stating an opinion, a personal taste. The whole concept of criticism is great for the development of many things. A criticism can show the writter a mistake of his, or something that he didn't think about.
    When people say things when they know nothing, then they're just stating their opinions like facts, which is another mistake made quite a lot too(I'll make another thread about this in the future),so this is no criticism.
     
         
    Last edited by Ira; 12-31-2013 at 05:22 AM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Snape Uchiha View Post
    He acknowledged that point.
    It wasn't acknowledged
    A criticism is an opinion so how can it have evidence or facts?
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
    Those are just cavemen who treat Naruto like their God.
    This .

    I agree completely with you man , this people are just puppets of Kishi & probably haven't even read anything else that isn't Naruto so they don't know any better , also they don't seem to realize that many people have come this far to just stop it , but of course since that is not the problem with them , they will also tell you : is not ! Stop reading ! stop b1tching , moaning ! etc . Amen ! Ole! .
     
         

  13. #13
    Leaf anbu Wolfus's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    It wasn't acknowledged
    A criticism is an opinion so how can it have evidence or facts?
    I guess you lack the ability of reading. The concept of criticism is just written above. An opinion is just an idea about something, it's just the very beggining of criticism.

    "To criticize, one doesn't have to do better, one must have arguments and evidences to suport an idea. One must have knowledge about the subject. A criticism is based on an analysis of what is being criticized. With the analysis, the arguments can be based on facts, on the very characteristics of the object. Then, they will be used in order to suport or disprove an idea"

    I will say it again, read the thread before posting things.
     
         

  14. #14
    JIRAIYA perv's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    i like this thread .

    what's worse than the people who insult/criticize a series, are the fanboys who defend it as if the insults were actually for him/her.

    people don't know how to ignore/accept what others say about their favorite series's/characters and enjoy themselves.
    and like you said "Criticizing doesn't mean one has to stop watching/reading what he/she is criticizing" these people/children can't even comprehend this.

    so what if someone said "Naruto sucks" ...................
     
         
    Last edited by JIRAIYA perv; 10-22-2013 at 11:56 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Obviously you didn't read. I clearly said that one must not disrespect. To criticize is a right, a part of our freedom of speech.
    I already explained the concept of criticism above, read the thread before posting things.
    I read the thread and when I say "right" I don't mean lawful
    Just because you think you know what you're talking about doesn't mean you fully understand a concept, not until you're in the same position
    You can criticize all you want and state your opinion on what you don't like and what you disagree with but bashing something that you don't understand isn't right really
    "If you don't like don't read" simple as that
     
         

  16. #16
    Leaf anbu Wolfus's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    I read the thread and when I say "right" I don't mean lawful
    Just because you think you know what you're talking about doesn't mean you fully understand a concept, not until you're in the same position
    You can criticize all you want and state your opinion on what you don't like and what you disagree with but bashing something that you don't understand isn't right really
    "If you don't like don't read" simple as that
    Criticizing=/=bashing and Criticizing=/=opinions, as I explained. To state a opinion as a fact is a mistake. That's why criticism, when made in the correct way, is based on analysis of the characteristics of the object. This analysis is what will suport or disprove an opinion or thought.
    To bash is to disrespect, and as i said, that can't be made.
    "Don't like, don't read" is, as I said, a mistaken childish thought of people that don't understand criticism.
     
         

  17. #17
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    I guess you lack the ability of reading. The concept of criticism is just written above. An opinion is just an idea about something, it's just the very beggining of criticism.

    "To criticize, one doesn't have to do better, one must have arguments and evidences to suport an idea. One must have knowledge about the subject. A criticism is based on an analysis of what is being criticized. With the analysis, the arguments can be based on facts, on the very characteristics of the object. Then, they will be used in order to suport or disprove an idea"

    I will say it again, read the thread before posting things.
    I just read the thread for a third time
    Nothings changed
    You can state your opinion on something and give criticism l. I don't have a problem With that but if you yourself can't do something or haven't experienced anything or truly know the subject from the inside then you can't judge. Your criticism is void
     
         

  18. #18
    Leaf anbu Wolfus's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    I just read the thread for a third time
    Nothings changed
    You can state your opinion on something and give criticism l. I don't have a problem With that but if you yourself can't do something or haven't experienced anything or truly know the subject from the inside then you can't judge. Your criticism is void
    Criticism itself requires knowledge. Criticism requires an analysis, which is part experience about the subject as well. It's in the concept. If the person just states an idea, that's not criticism, and that would be void.
     
         

  19. #19
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Criticizing=/=bashing and Criticizing=/=opinions, as I explained. To state a opinion as a fact is a mistake. That's why criticism, when made in the correct way, is based on analysis of the characteristics of the object. This analysis is what will suport or disprove an opinion or thought.
    To bash is to disrespect, and as i said, that can't be made.
    "Don't like, don't read" is, as I said, a mistaken childish thought of people that don't understand criticism.
    Yes I know what criticism is but you really can only be in a position to criticize if you completely know what you're talking about
    Kishimoto has gone to school and studied manga
    He knows what he's doing
    He's completely educated in his field
    If you don't have the same experience or at least something similar such as drawing talent and you understand his struggle then you can never get a full analysis of the subject
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    Yes I know what criticism is but you really can only be in a position to criticize if you completely know what you're talking about
    Kishimoto has gone to school and studied manga
    He knows what he's doing
    He's completely educated in his field
    If you don't have the same experience or at least something similar such as drawing talent and you understand his struggle then you can never get a full analysis of the subject
    Bold part is false. Want an example? Get a teacher. A math teacer, that graduated in math in college. He has more knowledge and skills than the students. Yet, he can make a mistake, or use a mistaken method to teach or to explain.

    The same thing here. We've seen that kishi has made mistakes in the art, for example, some plot incosistences that are criticized. The criticism requires knowledge about what is being criticized, mostly. Of course, as a consequence, knowledge about the field is required as well, but not necessarily equal to the one who made the object being criticized. Just knowledge.
    Plot for example,is something that involves many areas. Having knowledge is some of them might be enough to criticize a basic aspect of the plot.

    In an analysis, is the same thing. You must understand what is being criticized, but the analysis will help in in the that. The analysis will get every characteristic of the object, and put it right in front of you, for then, you use them to suport or disprove an argument which suports a main idea.
     
         

  21. #21
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Criticism itself requires knowledge. Criticism requires an analysis, which is part experience about the subject as well. It's in the concept. If the person just states an idea, that's not criticism, and that would be void.
    You can t fully know until you've done it though
    You can't make a full analysis until you know every, or almost every, aspect of the subject
    When has their ever been someone officially critique something when they're not completely educated in their field?
    For example
    Even simon cowell who can't sing knows good singing and good music because he has experience with the subject
    If you can't write or draw and don't know the lifestyle, system, challenges or work ethics of a mangaka completely then you can't really understand what you're criticizing therefore its void
    Making it a total opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Bold part is false. Want an example? Get a teacher. A math teacer, that graduated in math in college. He has more knowledge and skills than the students. Yet, he can make a mistake, or use a mistaken method to teach or to explain.

    The same thing here. We've seen that kishi has made mistakes in the art, for example, some plot incosistences that are criticized. The criticism requires knowledge about what is being criticized, mostly. Of course, as a consequence, knowledge about the field is required as well, but not necessarily equal to the one who made the object being criticized. Just knowledge.
    Plot for example,is something that involves many areas. Having knowledge is some of them might be enough to criticize a basic aspect of the plot.

    In an analysis, is the same thing. You must understand what is being criticized, but the analysis will help in in the that. The analysis will get every characteristic of the object, and put it right in front of you, for then, you use them to suport or disprove an argument which suports a main idea.
    That's not critism
    That just pointing out a fault
    Faults and mistakes are natural amongst humans
     
         
    Last edited by Ira; 12-31-2013 at 05:23 AM.

  22. #22
    Leaf anbu Wolfus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    You can t fully know until you've done it though
    You can't make a full analysis until you know every, or almost every, aspect of the subject
    When has their ever been someone officially critique something when they're not completely educated in their field?
    For example
    Even simon cowell who can't sing knows good singing and good music because he has experience with the subject
    If you can't write or draw and don't know the lifestyle, system, challenges or work ethics of a mangaka completely then you can't really understand what you're criticizing therefore its void
    Making it a total opinion
    Wrong. An opinion doesn't possess any evidence or any kind of suport. The criticism does. To make an analysis, you don't have to be exactly like the other person to criticize, and that's what you are suggesting. There are knowlegde in many fields, and many kinds of knowledge can be applied and adquired from an analysis. The suport of this is on the other comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    That's not critism
    That just pointing out a fault
    Faults and mistakes are natural amongst humans
    And what proves that it is a mistake is the criticism. The main idea is: "this is wrong, this is a mistake". Then, with the analysis, one can build the argument to suport this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    You can t fully know until you've done it though
    You can't make a full analysis until you know every, or almost every, aspect of the subject
    When has their ever been someone officially critique something when they're not completely educated in their field?
    For example
    Even simon cowell who can't sing knows good singing and good music because he has experience with the subject
    If you can't write or draw and don't know the lifestyle, system, challenges or work ethics of a mangaka completely then you can't really understand what you're criticizing therefore its void
    Making it a total opinion
    To criticize, it's not necessary for one to have the same knowledge as the creator of what is being criticized, nor the same ability. Critiques have a lot of knowledge in the field, as they criticize every aspect of the subject. Even though, this doesn't mean they can do better, nor that they have the same knowledge. The critiques mgiht not even be able to create anything related to it. This even shows that their knowledge is limitted to a point, and the creator surpasses them, as the creator could apply the information to the creative process, which is knowledge, knowledge that the critique lacks.
    Any regular person that criticizes something, is, most likely, criticizing just a small part of the subject. That's why I even said that one might dislike something, doesn't mean he dislikes everything about it.
    This person is even more limitted. That's why it doesn't require the same knowledge to criticize.
     
         
    Last edited by Ira; 12-31-2013 at 05:24 AM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Wrong. An opinion doesn't possess any evidence or any kind of suport. The criticism does. To make an analysis, you don't have to be exactly like the other person to criticize, and that's what you are suggesting. There are knowlegde in many fields, and many kinds of knowledge can be applied and adquired from an analysis. The suport of this is on the other comment.
    I didn't say an opinion was factual and I didn't say you have to be like the person you criticize
    I'm saying you need full understanding of what you're criticizing otherwise your critique is void and discreditable
    You wouldn't truly know what you're talking about
     
         

  24. #24
    Senior Member hixa kuogame's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't like, don't read"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    To criticize, it's not necessary for one to have the same knowledge as the creator of what is being criticized, nor the same ability. Critiques have a lot of knowledge in the field, as they criticize every aspect of the subject. Even though, this doesn't mean they can do better, nor that they have the same knowledge. The critiques mgiht not even be able to create anything related to it. This even shows that their knowledge is limitted to a point, and the creator surpasses them, as the creator could apply the information to the creative process, which is knowledge, knowledge that the critique lacks.
    Any regular person that criticizes something, is, most likely, criticizing just a small part of the subject. That's why I even said that one might dislike something, doesn't mean he dislikes everything about it.
    This person is even more limitted. That's why it doesn't require the same knowledge to criticize.
    You're saying two different things
    A criticism is pointing out the mistake of ones work
    And criticism is your input and evaluation of something in particular
    Which is it that you're trying to convey
     
         

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    I didn't say an opinion was factual and I didn't say you have to be like the person you criticize
    I'm saying you need full understanding of what you're criticizing otherwise your critique is void and discreditable
    You wouldn't truly know what you're talking about
    Full understanding would be all the knowledge about the field that the object being criticized belongs to. This is not required, as even the creator might not have this knowledge.
    The knowledge required is limitted to the part of the object you're criticizing. In fact, the knowledge used is proportional to the evidences used in the arguments(remember that these arguments are disproving or suporting the opinion, the idea). If these evidences are enough to the point that they can't be countered, is the point that reached the minimum of knowledge required.
    To gather the evidences, you can apply logic and knowledge in other fields to some characteristics of the object.

    Quote Originally Posted by hixa kuogame View Post
    You're saying two different things
    A criticism is pointing out the mistake of ones work
    And criticism is your input and evaluation of something in particular
    Which is it that you're trying to convey
    You didn't understand what I said. How is it known that something is a mistake? First, the person, the critique, thinks that it is a mistake. This is the idea. Then, with the all process I mentioned and even more, evidences are gathered and used to suport the idea. This is how.
    Pointing a mistake is just one KIND of criticism.
     
         
    Last edited by Ira; 12-31-2013 at 05:21 AM.

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