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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mitarashi's Avatar
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    Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    He has Mokuton, he also has the Sharingan, the "Copy wheel eye" and he's seen it before.
    What's stopping him from using it now? It is a "Sage jutsu" but so is Rasenshuriken, it should be able to be used given enough chakra.

    I really don't see why Madara can't use it. He has everything he needs ( Sage mode just adds Sage chakra, so Madara's would either be smaller or take more chakra.. ).
     
         

  2. #2
    Konoha no Kiroi Senko YellowFang's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Now, it's possible but I don't see it happening...
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    rasenshuriken isn't a sage jutsu xD
    Naruto must use Sage Mode to make sure he doesn't hurt himself O.o he used it twice on Kakuzu without Sage Mode and got hospitalized xD
     
         

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mitarashi's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by YellowFang View Post
    Now, it's possible but I don't see it happening...
    Thousand handed Perfect susano'o covered buddha anyone?
    Thousand swords too, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by everztar View Post
    rasenshuriken isn't a sage jutsu xD
    Naruto must use Sage Mode to make sure he doesn't hurt himself O.o he used it twice on Kakuzu without Sage Mode and got hospitalized xD
    Eh, you know what I mean lol.
     
         

  5. #5
    Senior Member Cfighter's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    What would be the point? He already has an arsenal of over powered attacks (PS, meteor, Rinnegan his fan, etc). I don't know if he can or can't copy it, but I do know he doesn't need too. Theres a reason Kishi decided to pit Madara alone against the entire Shinobi world.
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    well we don't know yet tho... we haven't gotten the jutsu explained enough yet :c
     
         

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mitarashi's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cfighter View Post
    What would be the point? He already has an arsenal of over powered attacks (PS, meteor, his fan, etc). I don't know if he can or can't copy it, but I do know he doesn't need too. Theres a reason Kishi decided to pit Madara alone against the entire Shinobi world.
    Because a Perfect Susano'o covered Shinsuusenju with PS Swords that can literally throw the meteors around is hilariously op'd?

    If Madara has Amaterasu, he can even cover it with Black flames and just grab everyone, gg.
     
         

  8. #8
    Senior Member -ahhimane-'s Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitarashi View Post
    He has Mokuton, he also has the Sharingan, the "Copy wheel eye" and he's seen it before.
    What's stopping him from using it now? It is a "Sage jutsu" but so is Rasenshuriken, it should be able to be used given enough chakra.

    I really don't see why Madara can't use it. He has everything he needs ( Sage mode just adds Sage chakra, so Madara's would either be smaller or take more chakra.. ).

    Nope.
    Madara cannot copy Shinsuusenjuu. Because it is a Sage mode jutsu.
    Plus, Naruto's RS isn't a Sage mode based jutsu. He can perform in base form as well. Sage mode protects him from chakra needles.
    Whenever Naruto or Hashirama says "Senpou", means they used Senjutsu chakra into the jutsu. Otherwise the jutsu is made out from their own chakra.

    IF Madara could use Shinsuusenjuu even if it is small then what will be the use of it?
    Compared to that small Shinsuusenjuu, his PS is better. So why to waste chakra on that?
     
         

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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Rasenshuriken cannot be copied unless you are like Naruto that never gives up. According to Kakashi, he said it can't be copied by sharingan even you're using your strength or chakra.
     
         

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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Well if he really stole Hashirama's SM, i don't see why he couldn't since he already has Hashirama's DNA and already showed the capacity to use his most advanced mokuton ninjutsus outside SM
     
         

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    Konoha no Kiroi Senko YellowFang's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitarashi View Post
    Thousand handed Perfect susano'o covered buddha anyone?
    Thousand swords too, I guess.
    Madara takes pride in his arsenal... He won't copy ShinsuSenju.
    Also, apparently SM is needed to summon it which Madara don't have...
     
         

  12. #12
    Senior Member Mitarashi's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahhimane View Post

    Nope.
    Madara cannot copy Shinsuusenjuu. Because it is a Sage mode jutsu.
    Plus, Naruto's RS isn't a Sage mode based jutsu. He can perform in base form as well. Sage mode protects him from chakra needles.
    Whenever Naruto or Hashirama says "Senpou", means they used Senjutsu chakra into the jutsu. Otherwise the jutsu is made out from their own chakra.

    IF Madara could use Shinsuusenjuu even if it is small then what will be the use of it?
    Compared to that small Shinsuusenjuu, his PS is better. So why to waste chakra on that?
    You're clueless, lmao. You contradicted yourself twice.
    Sage chakra and SM Jutsu don't require you to be in SM, they just use SM Chakra, Madara could use it but it'd take 30% more chakra on his behalf, and it'd be the exact same size.
     
         

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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Dont think so, he needs to get sage mode before he can do that.

    Also, I have been wondering why he wasnt also using the dragon wood to fight against Hashirama.
    He used it against Naruto.
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Its possible, shinsuusenju covered in susanoo armor and holding susanoo swords in its hands might be the next challenge for the good guys
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Madara till now hasn't displayed any sage mode feets. Shissusenju is sage mode tech, so if someone copies something using sharingan, there body must be capable of using that technique, i.e. since Madara doesn't have sage mode, he won't be able to use Shisuusenju.
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Even the sharingan has its limits.
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitarashi View Post
    He has Mokuton, he also has the Sharingan, the "Copy wheel eye" and he's seen it before.
    What's stopping him from using it now? It is a "Sage jutsu" but so is Rasenshuriken, it should be able to be used given enough chakra.

    I really don't see why Madara can't use it. He has everything he needs ( Sage mode just adds Sage chakra, so Madara's would either be smaller or take more chakra.. ).
    SM increases your jutsu's power a lot, look what it did to Naruto's physical strength, 1 hit punches.FRS was created by Base Naruto. Also even if Madara used that, he no longer have unlimited chakra while Hashirama can go SM, get powered up by Naruto's chakra cloak which was powering people up 4x-6x the power and summon his which will be stronger and coat it with Sasuke's PS which is also powered up by Naruto's chakra cloak. The stronger the opponent only makes Naruto's group stronger as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitarashi View Post
    Because a Perfect Susano'o covered Shinsuusenju with PS Swords that can literally throw the meteors around is hilariously op'd?

    If Madara has Amaterasu, he can even cover it with Black flames and just grab everyone, gg.
    Amaterasu would just burn it up and that would be dumb on his part, Sasuke ever only did it when he was on defense against a stronger ninja who would kill him if e didn't use it. As Amaterasu burns Susanoo, Sasuke is constantly outputting to keep Susanoo up and has to increase the output so Amaterasu doesn't burn it down which only waste more chakra.
     
         

  18. #18
    - UchihaNagashi's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    I don't know about that.

    Here's a theory;

    Kakashi stated that Kekkei Genkãi was nearly impossible to read. I believe it's because of the complex formula of chãkra mixing, even for those who have Fûton and Suiton (= Hyõton).

    Even if he does have Mokuton, he needs to learn the complex formula in order to create a certain jutsu.

    If you know what I mean. But again - this is just a theory.
     
         

  19. #19
    Molten Dragon AGoodBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Obviously he can. All he required was SM because its an SM attack. The thing's probably sitting in his arsenal right now
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGoodBoy View Post
    Obviously he can. All he required was SM because its an SM attack. The thing's probably sitting in his arsenal right now
    He can't copy it if he has no knowledge.

    But then again he made a Wood Dragon, so... probably yeah. He has it.
     
         

  21. #21
    Senior Member -ahhimane-'s Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitarashi View Post
    You're clueless, lmao. You contradicted yourself twice.

    I'm not contradicting myself buddy.
    The above paragraph was my my explanation and the next paragraph was to explain what will happen if Madara follows what you have said in your thread. (small shissusenjuu thing)
    Sage chakra and SM Jutsu don't require you to be in SM, they just use SM Chakra, Madara could use it but it'd take 30% more chakra on his behalf, and it'd be the exact same size.

    , you're proving that you lack knowledge on the manga.
    I agree on the Sage chakra part. After all you can go into Sage Mode after gathering Sage chakra.
    But How can one use Sage Mode jutsu without being in Sage Mode? LMAO
    Hashirama himself went into Sage mode when he used Shinsuusenjuu. Take a Look. Plus he was gathering Sage chakra by joining his hands throughout chapter 621.



    In short, Shinsuusenjuu needs Sage chakra, due to which the user goes into Sage mode and hence can use the jutsu.

    Now about Naruto using Rasen-Shuriken, If Naruto is in base form, he needs to go in Sage Mode to use the Rasen-shuriken to avoid the chakra needles as well as for a secondary job which needs Sage mode's sensing ability. As shown in current chapter.

    But when Naruto is in KCM/BM mode, he doesn't need Sage mode or Sage chakra to use Rasen-Shuriken. Take a look, he isn't in Sage mode.


    If you understood what I meant to say, Conditions to be satisfied to gather Sage chakra -> Gathering of Sage chakra -> User goes into Sage Mode.
    ( Naruto needs to stay still to gather Sage chakra )
    ( Jiraiya and Hashirama gathers the Sage chakra by focusing it within their joined hands and hence can move in a battle )

    Hence Madara cannot use Shinsuusenjuu because he doesn't know how to gather Sage chakra in the first place. Also Sage mode isn't everyone's piece of cake. Having Hashirama's DNA doesn't make you Hashirama himself. Madara is only capable of using the Mokuton Jutsus which Hashirama can do in base form (without Sage mode)
     
         

  22. #22
    Molten Dragon AGoodBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    @uchihanagashi* Why would he not have knowledge? He's seen it. It's been copied by his sharingan even if he didn't mean to. He has the release. There's nothing stopping him from using it. There's nothing different about copying kkg, its just the person wouldn't know how to combine the elements to be able to produce it, but madara has that covered.
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGoodBoy View Post
    @uchihanagashi* Why would he not have knowledge? He's seen it. It's been copied by his sharingan even if he didn't mean to. He has the release. There's nothing stopping him from using it. There's nothing different about copying kkg, its just the person wouldn't know how to combine the elements to be able to produce it, but madara has that covered.
    I said maybe.

    Could be right, but never definite if you're not Kishimoto.
     
         

  24. #24
    Member Download's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    madara could use it but i don't think he will he has too much power anyways
     
         

  25. #25
    Facts > You. scorezor's Avatar
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    Re: Can Madara copy shinsuusenju ?

    I mean... he has his lover's wood and i think that now he has the sennin mode of his lover , so... idk... it will take kishimoto to do some of his "magic tricks" for madara to do such a feat.
     
         

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