[Theory] Madara is a Zetsu clone!

[uhIpooped]

First of all: Tobi could easily deactivate his sharingan if he were an Uchiha, so why doesn't he when talking to Sasuke?

The first time Tobi was introduced into the Manga he was shown with Zetsu
Naruto 280 page 19 | One Manga
Now IF Madara was the original creator of Akatsuki, Pein being his subordinate could have and would have just made him a member imo ...

I was reading a chapter where Tobi was fighting Fu and Torune.. Tobi's arm got infected transporting them and he was forced to rip it off.
As I was looking at the picture I noticed all of the insides of the arm were white.
Top right picture:Naruto 475 page 11 | One Manga
I'm starting to think that Tobi is a Zetsu Substitute clone
Substitute Technique - Substitute Technique - Narutopedia, the Naruto Wiki
A couple of chapters later, Tobi recieved a new arm, in front of a Zetsu like plant: Naruto 486 page 05 | One Manga
Theory:
Madara knew Zetsu way back when, Zetsu followed Madara ... Zetsu was watching the battle between Madara and the 1st (recording like he does now). After Madara fell and the 1st had left Zetsu approached Madara as he lay dying. Madara told Z that he was dying.. and I believe it was then that Z created this clone we call Tobi, a perfect copy of Madara, yet also a Shell of his former self.. As Z's substitute clone jutsu even copys the persons chakara. That way if sensor types looked and knew Madara's chakara it would show that it was really him. Perhaps this is how he was able to fool Itachi, and even the village elders etc ....
Zetsu being the Main villan May be interesting but I dont believe it to be him. He is more or less carrying out a dying wish (?) or plan ..

And maybe when Kabuto showed that coffin to Tobi(Z clone) he freaked out because he(Zetsu) had devoured Madara's body, and was wondering how he was able to bring it back...It could explain why everyone believes Madara is still alive when in actuality he is not. As I said I dont believe Zetsu to be the Main villain, but more or less being the means to an end that the Real Madara wanted.I think Zetsu was a follower of Madara's back in the day, and was recording the Battle Madara and the 1st had, to develop a game plan for future use. Things didn't go according to their plan, as Madara was defeated, and lay dying. So they both came up with the Idea to use Zetsu to clone Madara and thus giving him new life and a way to carry out his plans after his real body dies. Many aspects of this theory fit known knowledge of Tobi. Like why he is a "shell" of his former self. Also why Tobi has never really engaged in battle (was always more of a diversion). Why we have yet to see his EMS. Why Tobi and Zetsu are so close. How Tobi replaced his arm. Why Itachi believed him to be the real Madara, along with everyone else. Why he has knowledge of Madara's past and the past of others.

Maybe Madara was so disfigured from his battle with the 1st that Zetsu's clone could not replace the damage so to speak. Or maybe the mask has a more significant value like a way to channel chakara for some means.

Something else I thought about is Zetsu always knows where Tobi is, and Tobi also can track people, however it seems that it is only people he has come in contact with. My reasoning for this is, Tobi being a Zetsu clone, he can place chakara-less spores on people Like at the Kage summit.. and use these to track people. Just like after the Sasuke & Itachi fight .. Zetsu showed up in the branch Tobi was standing on.

Another thing that came to me is, after the Pein arc,Tobi was upset that Nagato used the tech that revived everyone (forget its name) Tobi said it was supposed to be for him, Why? so far no one has been able to touch him, not even Ameterasu! ... So this leads me to believe that he wanted Nagato to revive his real body...

Support for this theory may be found through Kisame and Bee's battle.. where it proved to be a Zetsu clone. The only point in the Kisame vs Bee fight that Zetsu could have cloned Kisame is when Bee spit his squid ink out, and Kisame (for lack of a better word) was still fused with Sameheda ... And after that I think that even the hachibi should have noticed the switch, but he didn't ... Since Zetsu can copy chakara ...

Now some will argue : "Why isn't Zetsu in charge then?"
my answer: Zetsu on his own is not very strong, and is not a 'fighter' ...
some will argue : "Why doesn't he just make a clone army?"
my answer: Zetsu is probably limited on how may substitute clones he can make, like Naruto in SM ...

this is all I have for now, future edits are in process!

[uhIpooped]

Sorry for the Title mix up I meant Tobi is a Zetsu clone!

[~+h0lLy-cRab+~]

You have a point but i think there is a low chance this is true but still good thinking

[Yahya]

Will it's kinda make sense, good theory.

[Honord Sage]

Well, if Madara is Madara He is over one hundred years of age and Zetsu might be using His power and skills to maintain His Body.Or as you say Zetsu might have clone a body for Madara to pass His conscience to it. This would be a noter theory. We do not have all the pieces yet to go one way or the other yet.

[Ironreaver7]

I like it...nice though and as I always say this series has had stranger things happen

[Mino]

this makes some sense.. I really like this theory hence that zetsu is my favorite character so to speak.. have thought along those lines that zetsu had met with madara after the battle, but your theory took it to another level (in a good way :P)

[Typhon]

The problem with this theory is that Zetsu still takes orders from Tobi even when they're alone.

[Sly Anbu]

Cool theory. What is interesting is that I came up with the same thing a few months ago, and everyone called me crazy lol

http://www.narutobase.net/forums/nar...ra-madara.html

[~Hasashi~]

eh technically it makes sense

but it will never happen

it would kill the whole series if tobi wasn't madara the biggest ovet the last 100 years

[uzuma]

good theory.i think this should be taken into consideration.

[David]

Good theory. But I think Madaras mind is still in there somehow thats whay Zetsu takes orders from him. Madara wouldnt say he was a shell if it wasnt really Madara. I think Madara means is that his chakra and mind are there just not everything else, like his sharigan or his body.

[Typhon]

I think if anything Zetsu sometimes poses as Tobi, but the real Tobi is not Zetsu. It just wouldn't make sense in some scenes when they're alone for them to be the same person.

[rezhawajumamichi]

I don't think so O.O

[BishamonSama]

Text wall O.O

Well, your theory is logically sound - you have examples to prove everything. In contradiction to that sentence, I just don't think it makes much sense. Not only can I not see Kishi doing something like that, but Madara and Zetsu have talked alone together - why would Zetsu be talking with a clone of himself, especially when they would share a collective conscience? Also, Madara demonstrates abilities only characteristic of an Uchiha. How could he have stopped Sasuke's Amaterasu if he weren't the real deal? There are a bunch of other examples, and I just can't see Madara being a Zetsu clone. It just doesn't make sense from a literary or canonical standpoint for me.

But I really do admire the creativity and the effort that went into this theory. I certainly would never have thought of it. So I disagree with your theory, but I congratulate you on a well-formulated theory.

[uhIpooped]

The problem with this theory is that Zetsu still takes orders from Tobi even when they're alone.

Perhaps because Madara was the better tactician ...

[uhIpooped]

Tobi and Zetsu probably talk like Zetsu and Zetsu talk ... cmon now, 2 halves that talk to eachother...
Plus Zetsu still refers to "Madara" as Tobi ...

And yes there is so much we dont know yet, maybe Madara is alive, and very old, so the clone is there to do his bidding...

But I WILL hold fast to Tobi being a Zetsu clone...

Give me 1 piece of evidence that shows limb(arm/leg) regeneration...
and the fact that in the pic of the arm being torn off, it was all gooey like Zetsu techs.. this was the seller for me...

[apple pie of doom]

Well, he probably can't deactivate his sharingan just like Kakashi.
After all, Madara has his little brothers eyes.
Tobi is Madara unless proven otherwise to me.

[Mentaltraveler]

I have been thinking along similar lines. Remember when Sasuke took over Orochimaru's mind space during the body swap? He wasn't supposed to be able to do that.

I think Zetsu placed part of Madara's body inside his body, probably at least Madara's eyes. Or he consumed it all. And Madara took over at least a portion of Zetsu. That's why Zetsu acts deferential to Madara, if Zetsu held power over Madara I don't think he would be so deferential.

So I believe Madara is the real deal, or at least his eyes, but he cant turn off his MS because that's what gives him control of Zetsu's body.
Peace

[SHARINGAN_USER UCHIHA_ITACHI]

i don't think so....cauz if mAdArA is zEtsU's clone then why he's always so obvious to see the battles when zetsu is already there ...like back then after the fight between sAsUkE AND ItAchI, when he arrived at the battle place he asked zetsu that had he recorded the battle so he would take a good look at it....in that case zetsu was already watching the battle and if he's pulling the strings then he don't have to share the battle recoarding with his clone.....!!!!!

[GayAndDumb]

and naruto is a sasori clone

[The Pervy Sage]

and naruto is a sasori clone

we can tell your name suits you...

[GayAndDumb]

we can tell your name suits you...

another troll post by you go read sum jirya fan fiction
ontopic: he is not a clone he is obito

[The Pervy Sage]

another troll post by you go read sum jirya fan fiction
ontopic: he is not a clone he is obito

Yes another troll post by me....

says the guy who thinks madara is a crushed body...

And i dont read FF i write one fool

[uhIpooped]

Well, he probably can't deactivate his sharingan just like Kakashi.
After all, Madara has his little brothers eyes.
Tobi is Madara unless proven otherwise to me.

Well if he were an Uchiha he could...
This is also what I think ... like the first sentence in my theory ... Tobi cant deactivate his sharingan, otherwise he would have! just doesn't add up...

i don't think so....cauz if mAdArA is zEtsU's clone then why he's always so obvious to see the battles when zetsu is already there ...like back then after the fight between sAsUkE AND ItAchI, when he arrived at the battle place he asked zetsu that had he recorded the battle so he would take a good look at it....in that case zetsu was already watching the battle and if he's pulling the strings then he don't have to share the battle recoarding with his clone.....!!!!!

These clones are not like Kagebushin, or elemental clones ... So for me, what you said doesn't fit into this picture ...


Also people, we still have to see what the black side of Zetsu can do ... as he seems to be the one who is really in charge ... and I may be wrong about the way Zetsu and Madara met, but Tobi is a clone!

and so far no one has given a solid counter argument ... just saying ...