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  1. #26
    Senior Member Nattana's Avatar
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    Re: What Left Eye does Madara speak of?

    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    To what end? He can already use all Rinnegan techs and has the Juubi.

    What more could an extra Rinnegan do?
    Madara wants to go full SO6P.
     
         

  2. #27
    Senior Member Senju Bean's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxus View Post
    A picture of her w/ things coming out of her hair isn't evidence of horns. Could they be? Sure, or it could be some sort of crown as she was a princess. She also has them in the frame BEFORE she eats the fruit. They don't even look like the "horns" we've seen on So6P in the same drawings. BTW pretty sure Sage didn't have horns either, I think his hair looks horn like, like Naruto's does.

    On the reaper: No there is no real connection, no there is no actual pattern.
    Oh? Then why the pattern with horns? Why is it always above the eye without the Rinnegan?
     
         

  3. #28
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    Re: What Left Eye does Madara speak of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avery Namikaze View Post
    Yeah I thought this was obvious.
    This. So obvious, pateuvasiliu.....
     
         

  4. #29
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Bean View Post
    Oh? Then why the pattern with horns? Why is it always above the eye without the Rinnegan?
    Also the lack of pattern i was talking about was Kyuga and Death Reaper. But on to your point, Obito had 2 horns, which you conveniently ignore, because one was larger than the other. Now if Madara had 1 larger horn and 1 smaller horn but on opposite sides, I would agree.
     
         

  5. #30
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    Re: What Left Eye does Madara speak of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Bean View Post
    Oh? Then why the pattern with horns? Why is it always above the eye without the Rinnegan?
    Also the lack of pattern i was talking about was Kyuga and Death Reaper. But on to your point, Obito had 2 horns, which you conveniently ignore, because one was larger than the other. Now if Madara had 1 larger horn and 1 smaller horn but on opposite sides, I would agree. However in reality they have a spike, as you call it, on the same side of their forehead.
     
         

  6. #31
    Member Bansho Tenin's Avatar
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    Re: What Left Eye does Madara speak of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nattana View Post
    Madara wants to go full SO6P.

    yup, and remember he said that you need both eyes for their full power.
     
         

  7. #32
    Senior Member Senju Bean's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxus View Post
    Also the lack of pattern i was talking about was Kyuga and Death Reaper. But on to your point, Obito had 2 horns, which you conveniently ignore, because one was larger than the other. Now if Madara had 1 larger horn and 1 smaller horn but on opposite sides, I would agree.
    No because Obito had a smaller horn because he and a Sharingan where the smaller horn was. Sharingan is a dojutsu derivative of a the Rinnegan. It has some influcence

    Madara had nothing in the eye socket where the Rinnegan was missing. Not even a Sharingan. So yes, there would be no horn.

    Even if Kayuga isn't related to the Reaper, the Reaper, being that it has 6 flames, control of life and death, is related to the Uchiha Tablet, has to be somewhat related to the Rinnegan/Sage/Juubi. Therefore it would follow the pattern that I propose.
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Kaguya most likely had the Rin'negan...

    Her inherent relation to Rikudou and his Rin'negan assert such.
     
         

  9. #34
    Senior Member Senju Bean's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsura View Post
    Kaguya most likely had the Rin'negan...

    Her inherent relation to Rikudou and his Rin'negan assert such.
    Not until it is shown.

    Obito's Sharingan didn't transform into the Rinnegan by being the Juubi Jin. This is enough reason to say the burden of proof lie upon those that claim she had the Rinnegan.
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Bean View Post
    No because Obito had a smaller horn because he and a Sharingan where the smaller horn was. Sharingan is a dojutsu derivative of a the Rinnegan. It has some influcence

    Madara had nothing in the eye socket where the Rinnegan was missing. Not even a Sharingan. So yes, there would be no horn.

    Even if Kayuga isn't related to the Reaper, the Reaper, being that it has 6 flames, control of life and death, is related to the Uchiha Tablet, has to be somewhat related to the Rinnegan/Sage/Juubi. Therefore it would follow the pattern that I propose.
    Wait what... he has a small horn on the side w/ the missing eye.

    Dude... stop listing to Derp Obito's theories, Reaper is not related to the uchia tablet. The tablet wasn't part of Orochimaru's plan to revive the Kages that he clearly detailed. The room with the tablet was used as a secluded spot near the Uzumaki village. What control over life have you seen the Reaper use? And 6 flames hold no specific meaning other than to show that the Reaper is a spirit.
     
         
    Last edited by Draxus; 02-05-2014 at 09:48 PM.

  11. #36
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Obito's right half looked like this because it was completely made up of Zetsu DNA.

    Madara doesn't have horns here. It's just his visor. Having the Rinnegan doesn't influence Madara's appearance when he's the Juubi's host.
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Bean View Post
    Not until it is shown.

    Obito's Sharingan didn't transform into the Rinnegan by being the Juubi Jin. This is enough reason to say the burden of proof lie upon those that claim she had the Rinnegan.

    Rikudou's 2 power sources both stem from the Juubi; his inheritance from his mother and him being the Juubi Jin. Conclusively speaking, the Rinnegan comes from the Juubi's chakra and its effect on the person who has it. He either inherited from her, or directly from the Juubi as its Jin, and he most likely got it from Kaguya given that he'd need such power to oppose the Juubi.

    Regarding Obito, the Sharingan is an evolved version of the Rinnegan, strictly speaking if we're talking about the evolutionary chain of Dojutsu. How is it supposed to transform in to a de-evolved version of itself, if it is already the newer Dojutsu?
     
         

  13. #38
    Senior Member Senju Bean's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxus View Post
    If that's that's the cast then why wasn't his horn as big as Obito's? You see that's the major disconnect.

    Dude... stop listing to Derp Obito's theories, it's not related to the uchia tablet. The tablet wasn't part of Orochimaru's plan to revive the Kages that he clearly detailed. The room with the tablet was used as a secluded spot near the Uzumaki village. What control over life have you seen the Reaper use?
    It the relative nature between left and right that we should be concerned with. Obviously, Madara being v2 Rikudo would have a completely different outfit. He doesn't even have a horn, he has a metal spike where his headband is. But the pattern is still there.

    It's relative. It's person that only lifts weights on the right arm. Of course his right arm is going to be much bigger than his left arm, but compared to his legs, even if he works out the left leg, therefore making it bigger than the right one, his right arm(which he has been training) is still going to be smaller than his right leg, even though he doesn't work out that leg.

    So we can still infer a pattern that working out makes muscles bigger even though it is a relative relation.

    Yes it is related to the tablet because the Tablet is the key to unlocking the mask's power.

    The reaper can seal souls. Comeon, that is control over life. It's almost as if it acts like the King of Hell Nakura path summon, but kills instead of revives.
     
         

  14. #39
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Bean View Post
    It the relative nature between left and right that we should be concerned with. Obviously, Madara being v2 Rikudo would have a completely different outfit. He doesn't even have a horn, he has a metal spike where his headband is. But the pattern is still there.

    It's relative. It's person that only lifts weights on the right arm. Of course his right arm is going to be much bigger than his left arm, but compared to his legs, even if he works out the left leg, therefore making it bigger than the right one, his right arm(which he has been training) is still going to be smaller than his right leg, even though he doesn't work out that leg.

    So we can still infer a pattern that working out makes muscles bigger even though it is a relative relation.

    Yes it is related to the tablet because the Tablet is the key to unlocking the mask's power.

    The reaper can seal souls. Comeon, that is control over life. It's almost as if it acts like the King of Hell Nakura path summon, but kills instead of revives.
    Yes the human brain can find patterns in anything if it tries hard enough, but just because you can connect a series of dots in certain way doesn't mean you have to correct pattern.

    No tablet is not the key, that's never been stated in the manga. Oro said what needed to be done to free the souls, and never mentioned anything about the tablet. And sealing souls is what I call control over death, you said life and death. Not that it matters either way for what we are discussing.
     
         

  15. #40
    Senior Member Senju Bean's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsura View Post

    Rikudou's 2 power sources both stem from the Juubi; his inheritance from his mother and him being the Juubi Jin. Conclusively speaking, the Rinnegan comes from the Juubi's chakra and its effect on the person who has it. He either inherited from her, or directly from the Juubi as its Jin, and he most likely got it from Kaguya given that he'd need such power to oppose the Juubi.

    Regarding Obito, the Sharingan is an evolved version of the Rinnegan, strictly speaking if we're talking about the evolutionary chain of Dojutsu. How is it supposed to transform in to a de-evolved version of itself, if it is already the newer Dojutsu?
    But that doesn't mean his mother actually had the Rinnegan. There were no panels indicating that she had the Rinnegan, even white zetsu mentioned Madara and Hagaromo to be the only ones awaking the Rinnegan( I think that is Kishi's way of telling us the truth without having to draw an entire panel with Kayga's face since that is resevered for later).


    The Sharingan is not the Rinnegan. Without having a Rinnegan in a socket, the socket would spout a bigger horn than the socket with the Rinnegan. That's why the Obito's Rinnegan side came out with a small horn. Madara's Rinnegan didn't spout a horn at all since he's the original user, and has much higher mastery of the eye.

    It didn't evolve into the Sharingan. Hagaromo stripped the Rinnegan of it's Yang, genetically engineering it to be weaker. So it's more like forced devolution to me.
     
         
    Last edited by Senju Bean; 02-05-2014 at 10:23 PM.

  16. #41
    Senior Member Senju Bean's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxus View Post
    Yes the human brain can find patterns in anything if it tries hard enough, but just because you can connect a series of dots in certain way doesn't mean you have to correct pattern.

    No tablet is not the key, that's never been stated in the manga. Oro said what needed to be done to free the souls, and never mentioned anything about the tablet. And sealing souls is what I call control over death, you said life and death. Not that it matters either way for what we are discussing.
    A pattern is a pattern. You still are denying it? Maybe Kishi won't have it turn out that way. But ask yourself, what are the chances that all this is just a coincidence? That it all falls into line by random chance?

    So you are saying that Kishi just took them on a random stroll to the Uchiha shrine for no reason at all, and the had Oro wear the mask while staring into the tablet for no reason at all?

    So kishi just thinks wearing the mask exactly where Oro found it would be a waste of time for Sasuke and company? That it would make more sense to stroll for miles and miles before wearing the mask when he could have done it at any moment? Kishi is not that random
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Bean View Post
    A pattern is a pattern. You still are denying it? Maybe Kishi won't have it turn out that way. But ask yourself, what are the chances that all this is just a coincidence? That it all falls into line by random chance?

    So you are saying that Kishi just took them on a random stroll to the Uchiha shrine for no reason at all, and the had Oro wear the mask while staring into the tablet for no reason at all?

    So kishi just thinks wearing the mask exactly where Oro found it would be a waste of time for Sasuke and company? That it would make more sense to stroll for miles and miles before wearing the mask when he could have done it at any moment? Kishi is not that random
    It's not a coincidence, it's just not related to what side their rinnegan is on.

    Kishi didn't take them on a random stroll. The Uchiha shrine significance is to set tone for the reader, but it had nothing to do with the scroll or ritual. After all, it's where all the secrets lie, as Oro says. Later it's shown that it's where Madara declared he was leaving the village. Kishi is setting a tone here, not giving hints on how jutsu work. Orochimaru's own words say to unlock the seal the user has to do the DRS while wearing the mask, then cut their belly. He didn't say anything about the tablet. That's a problem a lot of theory makes have is they try to make an in-universe connection to everything, but somethings are to make a more interesting manga.
     
         

  18. #43
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    I like this check.
     
         

  19. #44
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    its ok theory
     
         

  20. #45
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxus View Post
    It's not a coincidence, it's just not related to what side their rinnegan is on.

    Kishi didn't take them on a random stroll. The Uchiha shrine significance is to set tone for the reader, but it had nothing to do with the scroll or ritual. After all, it's where all the secrets lie, as Oro says. Later it's shown that it's where Madara declared he was leaving the village. Kishi is setting a tone here, not giving hints on how jutsu work. Orochimaru's own words say to unlock the seal the user has to do the DRS while wearing the mask, then cut their belly. He didn't say anything about the tablet. That's a problem a lot of theory makes have is they try to make an in-universe connection to everything, but somethings are to make a more interesting manga.
    That is not logical. No one is going to buy that. To set the tone, the characters make completely illogical choices?
     
         

  21. #46
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    just a correction it's not horns.. (well what the gold and silver brothers have are obviously horns, but what the juubi jinchuuriki have are not)
    It's bunny ears..

    In the Buddhist Śaśajâtaka (Jataka Tale 316),[3] a monkey, an otter, a jackal, and a rabbit resolved to practice charity on the day of the full Moon (Uposatha), believing a demonstration of great virtue would earn a great reward.
    When an old man begged for food, the monkey gathered fruits from the trees and the otter collected fish, while the jackal wrongfully pilfered a lizard and a pot of milk-curd. The rabbit, who knew only how to gather grass, instead offered its own body, throwing itself into a fire the man had built. The rabbit, however, was not burnt. The old man revealed himself to be Śakra and, touched by the rabbit's virtue, drew the likeness of the rabbit on the Moon for all to see. It is said the lunar image is still draped in the smoke that rose when the rabbit cast itself into the fire.
    A version of this story can be found in the Japanese anthology Konjaku Monogatarishū, where the rabbit's companions are a fox and a monkey.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_rabbit
     
         

  22. #47
    Senior Member Senju Bean's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    An addendum to this theory of mine.

    Kabuto has no Rinnegan, heck, in SM he doesn't even have vision.

    But he has horns.

    Also, although weak in comparison, he does have some Sage powers, like control over life and death etc.

     
         

  23. #48
    Thread solo Specialist Mr Hiru's Avatar
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Not strong proof, but indeed strong connections in this theory. I give it a go.

    Let's see how far does this goes... Nice work, Beannie.
     
         

  24. #49
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Have seen a thread like this before and I just love this theory! Coincidence? I THINK NOT!! That's some big ass coincidence then. Everything just matches up perfectly.
     
         

  25. #50
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    Re: Horns and Missing Eyes: Spoiler !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Bean View Post
    That is not logical. No one is going to buy that. To set the tone, the characters make completely illogical choices?
    It's logical in the sense of it being a story moving from point A to B, but perhaps not in the universe as you understand it. Many stories in all mediums do this, but the better stories hid it well so you don't notice it without deeper analysis (or nitpicking). Doesn't matter if no one buys it, the facts are the facts, and everything else is supposition and opinion.

    You say it's illogical for them to have resurrected the kages before the Uchia tablet unless the tablet was key to the resurrection. I say it's illogical for Oro to detail every piece needed to remove the DRS except the tablet, yet the tablet be the key to the whole thing. There's your suppositions, which you think is correct is pure opinion.
     
         
    Last edited by Draxus; 02-17-2014 at 07:22 AM.

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