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  1. #21
    Grimorium Verum silenceofthelambs's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Steinbiz View Post
    exactly, he doesn't know what he's talking about. he links all these things and makes countless assumptions and tries very hard to turn them into logic.

    hey silenceofthelambs, how bout that page you linked yourself.
    Naruto 487 page 14 | One Manga
    right here madara CLEARLY says, zetsu can make perfect clones in terms of looks and chakra, oh but wait, mm, what does he say next silence? ? oh that's right, "but he's weak, he won't be any use in battle, but you can use him as a distraction".

    stop being such an antagonist fanboy and realize facts for a while. it's fun.

    oh by the way, that thing you said about you're the only one who posts links to backup your theories, don't even for one second say something that isn't true(oh wait, that's your specialty), because I will plow you into the ground with manga pages if I have to. but you're not worth it. thrive off of your crap antagonist fanboy logic forever in narutobase or gtfo?
    If you think about it, the clones actually are useful in battle - not for an extended amount of time, though. That's why I think Zetsu created a clone of Madara to delay Minato from telling Sarutobi what exactly was going on. It would explain why Madara wanted to end the battle so quickly, because the clones will eventually deteriorate of their own accord. For Kisame's purpose it was infiltration of Kumogakure, but for Madara's it was to delay Minato while the fox continued destroying everything in its path.

    By the way, it's become quite interesting how you suddenly fabricate things to suit your confused anger. Where did I say that I am the only one who uses manga pages to support my theories? If this is all you're able to say, then it might be wise to stop throwing yourself out of the blue into a conversation if you have no good points to make. No one wants to hear your whining; take it elsewhere.

    And you know what? I hope I'm not "worthy" enough to be in a conversation with you, because all I'll hear are a string of insults and incoherent sentences. There won't be much of benefit to extract from there. But it's fine; you can keep throwing your anger every which way - it still proves nothing.
     
         

  2. #22
    Legendary Steinbiz Steinbiz's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by silenceofthelambs View Post
    If you think about it, the clones actually are useful in battle - not for an extended amount of time, though. That's why I think Zetsu created a clone of Madara to delay Minato from telling Sarutobi what exactly was going on. It would explain why Madara wanted to end the battle so quickly, because the clones will eventually deteriorate of their own accord. For Kisame's purpose it was infiltration of Kumogakure, but for Madara's it was to delay Minato while the fox continued destroying everything in its path.

    By the way, it's become quite interesting how you suddenly fabricate things to suit your confused anger. Where did I say that I am the only one who uses manga pages to support my theories? If this is all you're able to say, then it might be wise to stop throwing yourself out of the blue into a conversation if you have no good points to make. No one wants to hear your whining; take it elsewhere.

    And you know what? I hope I'm not "worthy" enough to be in a conversation with you, because all I'll hear are a string of insults and incoherent sentences. There won't be much of benefit to extract from there. But it's fine; you can keep throwing your anger every which way - it still proves nothing.
    Angry? lol, I'm just confused how the logic you use is so bad. You cover up your fail with trying to talk all smart and whatever, you're fooling noone, except 14 year olds err w/e. But it's like I said earlier, you're not worth it, don't feel mad because nobody agrees with you.

    or should I just say "umad?" and be done with it?

    think before you talk. by the way, don't bother replying, you and I both know this will become a flame-fest with each other and our comments will get removed. end story.

    back on topic, if this is true, I can't wait to see what the 3rd can do against the kyuubi. probably not win but maybe some resistance?
     
         

  3. #23
    Grimorium Verum silenceofthelambs's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulquiorra Cifer View Post
    dont you think ur talking to much nonsence u dont know shitt about?

    first of all, Zetsu clone cant combine with Samaheda, second they switched somewhere, here! Naruto 472 page 12 | One Manga

    when Killer bee alredy was fry... Zetsu clone cant use space/time jutsu... it comes with Sharingan.... he can use it only if his one with Madara but thats another theory
    I don't mean to offend, but your post made no sense whatsoever. Where did you deduce that the Zetsu clone could not combine with Samehada? And the link you presented suggests nowhere that was the point where Zetsu switched places with Kisame.

    Secondly, you are only assuming that Madara's space-time ninjutsu is a result of his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan. There is absolutely nothing in the manga stating Madara's space-time ability was derived from his Sharingan.

    If you think I am talking nonsense, you can, but I recommend you check over all your facts first before you accuse somebody of something you might be doing as well. That is the definition of a hypocrite. I might be wrong, no one ever said I wasn't, but at least make sure you are not incorrect in a different way as well. The entire foundation of your argument is heavily weakened like that.
     
         

  4. #24
    Grimorium Verum silenceofthelambs's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Steinbiz View Post
    Angry? lol, I'm just confused how the logic you use is so bad. You cover up your fail with trying to talk all smart and whatever, you're fooling noone, except 14 year olds err w/e. But it's like I said earlier, you're not worth it, don't feel mad because nobody agrees with you.

    or should I just say "umad?" and be done with it?

    think before you talk. by the way, don't bother replying, you and I both know this will become a flame-fest with each other and our comments will get removed. end story.

    back on topic, if this is true, I can't wait to see what the 3rd can do against the kyuubi. probably not win but maybe some resistance?
    You can believe what you want. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is true. That's all I'm going to say.
     
         

  5. #25
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Come on guys... take a lesson from Naruto and let's show some love! Steinbiz- take it down a notch man! There's no need to come into conversation swinging. We are allowed to disagree. Silence of Lambs- stick to what you do best. I very much enjoy your posts to the majority of others (if I hear one more Tobito theory I will go Kyubbi on somebody). Your commitment to grammar and fact checking should be applauded. Whether or not predictions/interpretations of the manga are accurate or not isn't what this is about. This a forum to express creativity and share our joy of the Narutoverse with other passionate fans. It's very easy to get caught up in the moment, but there's no need to destroy each others villages in an effort to understand Pain! :D
     
         

  6. #26
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    yes this forum is for discussing the spoilers not bashing someones theories or predictions everyone needs to chill for a bit, i kno everyone gets passionate about what they believe is fact or right but none of us really know. Thats why I said my brain is starting to hurt with all the new questions as old ones get answered. I mean we wanted to know what happen on that day Kyuubi attack and we are getting it but with that more and more questions and twist. I want some closure to his identity also but I guess we just gotta tough it out for how ever long.

    This weeks chapter might reveal more but also might open up other questions and thats how he gets us to read it every week coz as long as we are talking about it Kishi will profit and the manga will thrive.
     
         

  7. #27
    ロロノア・ゾロ Caliburn's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Ok, that's enough. If you have a problem, do it in a PM/VM, but now stick to the spoilers.
     
         

  8. #28
    Member David Walker's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    yeesh opened a can of worms with the zetsu clone thing didnt I...

    its late at night but my opinion / belief of zetsus ability was that he was able to make perfect clones of somebody...now to me perfection implies they can use the same abilities as the original...hence madaras clone (?) being able to use space/time...

    (IMO) its just a cop-out / standard cliff hanger on the authors part...hes made minatos space time faster/ better as shown via the last manga episode... yet tobi / madara still escapes and causes trouble via the 9 tails etcetc...

    Que the endless fan speculation about just who was the better ninja... ... oh wait thats what he wants... :P
     
         

  9. #29
    Legendary Steinbiz Steinbiz's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliburn View Post
    Ok, that's enough. If you have a problem, do it in a PM/VM, but now stick to the spoilers.
    I apologize. but yeah, anyone think 3rd hokage will put up a good fight against the kyuubi?
     
         

  10. #30
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    wow, Zetsus clones are just Hokage lvl, very ****ing outstanding idea :D lets make some 5 clones of Madara and see whats happends, hilarious.....

    imagining things ....Zetsus - Madara clone matched with Minato in speed, while Minato throw Kunai it went thrue ultra fast clone(lol) or maybe they switche that fast, right before Minato hit him with Rasengan, i bet Minatos speed wouldnt notice that switch :D:D:D:D:D:D COME ON !!!!




    i have this Tourette Syndrome it just come out, sorry Cali :D:D:D
     
         
    Last edited by Grim; 07-21-2010 at 02:02 AM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Dean-Winchester's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    i really wannna see hiruzen
    in action and i kinda notice kakashi is the next god of shinobi
    because of his knowledege of 1000 jutsu now if he is hiding his fathers secret jutsu
    that even minato respected him for plus every 1 in the ninja world then he will get full reps
    mean while i dont like where this is heading
     
         

  12. #32
    Grimorium Verum silenceofthelambs's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Senpai Senpai View Post
    Come on guys... take a lesson from Naruto and let's show some love! Steinbiz- take it down a notch man! There's no need to come into conversation swinging. We are allowed to disagree. Silence of Lambs- stick to what you do best. I very much enjoy your posts to the majority of others (if I hear one more Tobito theory I will go Kyubbi on somebody). Your commitment to grammar and fact checking should be applauded. Whether or not predictions/interpretations of the manga are accurate or not isn't what this is about. This a forum to express creativity and share our joy of the Narutoverse with other passionate fans. It's very easy to get caught up in the moment, but there's no need to destroy each others villages in an effort to understand Pain! :D
    You are very right. I think we've all at one point or another lost the meaning about these forums - as you said, to express creativity and share our enjoyment of the story with other fans. We should all try to keep it that way - after all, predicting and theorizing is what makes the manga exciting - if we knew everything that was going to happen, then why watch? It is just for this reason that multitudes of fans gather daily to share their thoughts, questions, concerns, and comments about one of the most popular manga of all time.
     
         

  13. #33
    Grimorium Verum silenceofthelambs's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulquiorra Cifer View Post
    wow, Zetsus clones are just Hokage lvl, very ****ing outstanding idea :D lets make some 5 clones of Madara and see whats happends, hilarious.....

    imagining things ....Zetsus - Madara clone matched with Minato in speed, while Minato throw Kunai it went thrue ultra fast clone(lol) or maybe they switche that fast, right before Minato hit him with Rasengan, i bet Minatos speed wouldnt notice that switch :D:D:D:D:D:D COME ON !!!!




    i have this Tourette Syndrome it just come out, sorry Cali :D:D:D
    Despite the evident sarcasm, I just want to say that when Zetsu created a duplicate of Kisame, it was able to fight on equal footing with and defeat Killer Bee, who also had help from the Eight-Tailed Beast. I think they are powerful, but let's just wait until tomorrow - hopefully this question will be answered by then.
     
         

  14. #34
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by silenceofthelambs View Post
    I don't mean to offend, but your post made no sense whatsoever. Where did you deduce that the Zetsu clone could not combine with Samehada? And the link you presented suggests nowhere that was the point where Zetsu switched places with Kisame.

    Secondly, you are only assuming that Madara's space-time ninjutsu is a result of his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan. There is absolutely nothing in the manga stating Madara's space-time ability was derived from his Sharingan.

    If you think I am talking nonsense, you can, but I recommend you check over all your facts first before you accuse somebody of something you might be doing as well. That is the definition of a hypocrite. I might be wrong, no one ever said I wasn't, but at least make sure you are not incorrect in a different way as well. The entire foundation of your argument is heavily weakened like that.
    Zetsu's clone cannot combine with Samehada because Zetsu's clone does not share the chakra and the relationship between the real Kisame and Samehada. Samehada has some type of ability to sense whether it is it's real wielder. Zetsu and Kisame switched underwater, most likely after the Water dome was dispersed. Then Kisame jumped in Samehada, and Samehada realizes that it's not the real Kisame so it did not bother helping Zetsu out. Even Kisame said thank goodness Samehada took a liking to the 8 tails, which I believe means that Samehada has a mind of it's own and either shares some link with Kisame.

    Also Zetsu's clones are useless in battle, even stated by Madara, that his prime purpose was to use it as a distraction. There is no way in Naruto Universe that a Zetsu clone that has turned into Kisame, CANNOT defeat Hachibi in battle.

    An ability to do what Madara does for travel is because of his Sharingan, he probably copied it off of the 2nd Hokage and advanced it through his Sharingan powers. But Kakashi also has a similar technique where he sends objects to another location/dimension with his MS technique. Since Madara doesn't use hand seals, or equipment like Minato and his knifes, we have to assume that it's the power of his Sharingan. Possibly why the whole is on his right eye because that's his means of travel.
     
         

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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugiwara View Post
    ohana spoilers are usually confirmed.
    While we can usually can rely on ohana spoilers, we need to keep an open mind of spoilers being wrong on atleast some account.
     
         

  16. #36
    Grimorium Verum silenceofthelambs's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by kisamexRocks View Post
    Zetsu's clone cannot combine with Samehada because Zetsu's clone does not share the chakra and the relationship between the real Kisame and Samehada. Samehada has some type of ability to sense whether it is it's real wielder. Zetsu and Kisame switched underwater, most likely after the Water dome was dispersed. Then Kisame jumped in Samehada, and Samehada realizes that it's not the real Kisame so it did not bother helping Zetsu out. Even Kisame said thank goodness Samehada took a liking to the 8 tails, which I believe means that Samehada has a mind of it's own and either shares some link with Kisame.

    Also Zetsu's clones are useless in battle, even stated by Madara, that his prime purpose was to use it as a distraction. There is no way in Naruto Universe that a Zetsu clone that has turned into Kisame, CANNOT defeat Hachibi in battle.

    An ability to do what Madara does for travel is because of his Sharingan, he probably copied it off of the 2nd Hokage and advanced it through his Sharingan powers. But Kakashi also has a similar technique where he sends objects to another location/dimension with his MS technique. Since Madara doesn't use hand seals, or equipment like Minato and his knifes, we have to assume that it's the power of his Sharingan. Possibly why the whole is on his right eye because that's his means of travel.
    Samehada does indeed have an ability to sense who is wielding it, but remember what Madara said about Zetsu and his substitute technique. Zetsu can create a perfect copy of a person's chakra just by touching them, so would Samehada even notice that a clone of Kisame is wielding it, and not the real person?

    Naruto 487 page 14 | One Manga

    Besides, if Zetsu switched places with Kisame at the point you mentioned, Kisame was still holding the Samehada, so would your argument hold against your own words? Yes, Samehada immediately released itself from "Kisame's" grip after the giant mass of water had vanished, but that was because it became attached to Killer Bee's enormous reserves of chakra.

    Naruto 472 page 16 | One Manga

    Your last paragraph supports my theory why the "Madara" Minato was fighting was actually a Zetsu clone. You say that the clones Zetsu creates are next to useless in battle, specializing instead in diversion, correct? Well, notice how Madara suddenly confronts Minato and begins a fight, immediately after Minato got the intention of going to Sarutobi and telling him the full situation.

    Naruto 502 page 10 | One Manga

    Madara is trying to delay Minato from going to the village's aid, and this is probably why Madara was subdued by the Rasengan so quickly. Since the clones are not very effective in battle, they are rather easy to defeat. The clone of Kisame Zetsu created turned out more powerful because it was a fully-powered Kisame, unlike Madara who is a "mere shell of [his] former self." The clone, already a weakened version of the original, would last even less if it were a clone of Madara considering he claims to have no more power.

    Take a look at this. Two clones of Itachi and Kisame are created, yet the duplicates only have 30 percent of the original's chakra, but still manage to put up an impressive fight before being defeated by Konoha squads.

    Naruto 255 page 13 | One Manga
    Naruto 255 page 14 | One Manga

    Naruto 255 page 18 | One Manga

    Naruto 256 page 18 | One Manga
    Naruto 256 page 19 | One Manga

    Naruto 258 page 16-17 | One Manga
    Naruto 258 page 18 | One Manga
    Naruto 258 page 19 | One Manga

    Naruto 260 page 16 | One Manga

    Here they were used to distract, as well as all the other times these Zetsu clones have been created. Even if Kisame was fighting Killer Bee, his real goal was infiltration of Kumogakure - at this point it could be possible that this "Madara" might be a Zetsu clone, so I'm just going off that possibility.
     
         

  17. #37
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by silenceofthelambs View Post
    Samehada does indeed have an ability to sense who is wielding it, but remember what Madara said about Zetsu and his substitute technique. Zetsu can create a perfect copy of a person's chakra just by touching them, so would Samehada even notice that a clone of Kisame is wielding it, and not the real person?

    Naruto 487 page 14 | One Manga

    Besides, if Zetsu switched places with Kisame at the point you mentioned, Kisame was still holding the Samehada, so would your argument hold against your own words? Yes, Samehada immediately released itself from "Kisame's" grip after the giant mass of water had vanished, but that was because it became attached to Killer Bee's enormous reserves of chakra.

    Naruto 472 page 16 | One Manga

    Your last paragraph supports my theory why the "Madara" Minato was fighting was actually a Zetsu clone. You say that the clones Zetsu creates are next to useless in battle, specializing instead in diversion, correct? Well, notice how Madara suddenly confronts Minato and begins a fight, immediately after Minato got the intention of going to Sarutobi and telling him the full situation.

    Naruto 502 page 10 | One Manga

    Madara is trying to delay Minato from going to the village's aid, and this is probably why Madara was subdued by the Rasengan so quickly. Since the clones are not very effective in battle, they are rather easy to defeat. The clone of Kisame Zetsu created turned out more powerful because it was a fully-powered Kisame, unlike Madara who is a "mere shell of [his] former self." The clone, already a weakened version of the original, would last even less if it were a clone of Madara considering he claims to have no more power.

    Take a look at this. Two clones of Itachi and Kisame are created, yet the duplicates only have 30 percent of the original's chakra, but still manage to put up an impressive fight before being defeated by Konoha squads.

    Naruto 255 page 13 | One Manga
    Naruto 255 page 14 | One Manga

    Naruto 255 page 18 | One Manga

    Naruto 256 page 18 | One Manga
    Naruto 256 page 19 | One Manga

    Naruto 258 page 16-17 | One Manga
    Naruto 258 page 18 | One Manga
    Naruto 258 page 19 | One Manga

    Naruto 260 page 16 | One Manga

    Here they were used to distract, as well as all the other times these Zetsu clones have been created. Even if Kisame was fighting Killer Bee, his real goal was infiltration of Kumogakure - at this point it could be possible that this "Madara" might be a Zetsu clone, so I'm just going off that possibility.
    Here is the thing, Kisame has been with Samehada for almost all his life so the bond they share is probably pretty strong. I think the Samehada has an ability to detect faults and false chakra even if it is copied. Kisame and Samehada must have an unknown link between the two that Samehada is able to determine whether it is a clone or the real Kisame. Also it just says he can copy the chakra, it is never stated that Zetsu can copy the Strength and Chakra levels of the person he touches.

    If you look at the image Samehada is already in it's form, the spikes are just going back into Kisame. From that point Zetsu must have switched right then and there,while Kisame was unmerging and that's when Zetsu appeared. Zetsu's Kisame clone was holding Samehada when the real Kisame was already within Samehada. So the clone was still going back to normal when the real Kisame is hiding inside Samehada. Samehada was most likely working on the plan alongside Kisame. he must have told Samehada what to do to start acting like it is liking the Hachibi more, just so it would seem that Samehada actually likes Hachibi, to gain his trust and allow an easier infiltration.

    That doesn't mean i am saying it's Zetsu. The fighting style is the same as when Madara faced Fu and Torune. it was for wasting time so that the fox would destroy Konoha. Since Minato was most likely able to stop the fox, Madara wanted to stop Minato as much as possible so the fox will continue it's rampage. That doesn't mean that Madara was actually a Zetsu clone, otherwise Zetsu would be able to just use Madara's ability to travel through the countries at lightning speed. But he doesn't because he had never used a copy of Madara that we know of.

    You have to realize that the reason Madara was hit by the Rasengan was because of the time and the speed at which Minato used his Flying thunder god 2 technique. Madara needs to become solid to attack and that's what he was trying to do. He wasn't fast enough and that's why he lost against Minato. Like I said, Zetsu can copy the chakra of the person he touches, it is never said that the chakra means the actual chakra LEVEL and not the chakra TYPE. perhaps he can use the techniques but cannot use the techniques at the FULL power that the REAL individual would be able to.

    The reason they put up an impressive fight is because they were controlled by the actual person. Those were not Zetsu's clones, they were actual individuals that were being controlled by Kisame himself and Itachi himself.

    Yes there you go, Zetsu was used as a distraction to infiltrate Kumogakure, and that was when the Zetsu clone was holding Samehada and Kisame right after the Dome disappeared.
     
         
    Last edited by kisamexRocks; 07-21-2010 at 05:41 AM.

  18. #38
    Member Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    I must be the only one who wants this flash back to end already. I want Tobi to remove his mask already dammit! I also want to know if Naruto got any new abilities.
     
         

  19. #39
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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Steinbiz View Post
    exactly, he doesn't know what he's talking about. he links all these things and makes countless assumptions and tries very hard to turn them into logic.

    hey silenceofthelambs, how bout that page you linked yourself.
    Naruto 487 page 14 | One Manga
    right here madara CLEARLY says, zetsu can make perfect clones in terms of looks and chakra, oh but wait, mm, what does he say next silence? ? oh that's right, "but he's weak, he won't be any use in battle, but you can use him as a distraction".

    stop being such an antagonist fanboy and realize facts for a while. it's fun.

    oh by the way, that thing you said about you're the only one who posts links to backup your theories, don't even for one second say something that isn't true(oh wait, that's your specialty), because I will plow you into the ground with manga pages if I have to. but you're not worth it. thrive off of your crap antagonist fanboy logic forever in narutobase or gtfo?
    Can we stop calling people fanboys? We should all try to be modest as to why we are right and not act like we're some hot shit on the internet. How annoyed do you feel when someone calls you a Senju fanboy? It's really not a good insult because it's overused...


    Anyway. Silenceofthelambs, another flaw with your theory.


    Since Zetsu switched with Kisame underwater, I doubt he got to any fighting because the ideal time to switch with Kisame would be after Killer Bee shot the ink all over the water dome so that way Killer Bee wouldn't see it.
     
         

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    Re: Naruto Manga 503 Spoilers / Summaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind View Post
    I must be the only one who wants this flash back to end already. I want Tobi to remove his mask already dammit! I also want to know if Naruto got any new abilities.
    You are the only one lol

    We finally get a chance to see Kushina, Minato, the Kyuubi, and Madara in action. And we're sure to discover some secrets during this flashback as well. I hope it never ends!
     
         

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