[Theory] Madara and Tobi-Different but the Same

[Narutofan123457]

So I know there have been countless theories on who Madara is and what he is. Just bare with me on this one because I actually have a new theory.

I think Madara and Tobi are two different 'things' but still the same person. I think that Madara is the one behind it all, pulling all of the strings. But I think Tobi is just a Zetsu Clone of Madara. (Yes, I know that has been posted before, but I have a little more evidence now.) Everyone knows that when we first saw Tobi during the fights of Deidara vs. Sasuke and Tobi vs. the Leaf Ninja, he acted, well, goofy. Now recall how the white zetsu talks. He acts like he knows nothing, and yet he has all of these amazing powers that makes him practically unstoppable. I think that this Tobi that we first saw, the goofy one who has a sharingan is a white zetsu clone of Madara.

Okay, so let's say that's true. Why does Tobi change attitudes later on? Could it be that he is a black zetsu clone now? That would explain why during the Konan vs. Tobi fight, he was dead serious and it looked as though there was black around his sharingan eye. But why would Madara change clones? I think maybe the black zetsu has more powers than we know of right now. Remember when Tobi fought Danzo's assistants, his arm was cut off, but it seemed to grow back quite quickly didn't it? So could the black zetsu be able to regenerate limbs? There are probably other advancements to the black zetsu. That could also be why Madara is upgrading the black zetsu clone so much...he is getting it ready for war.

It seemed as though he switched the clones right after people starting believing he was Madara. He wants people to think that the zetsu clone is him. That way, if Tobi is killed, Madara can go back into the shadows and finish his plan. By then, he can hope to have all the jinchuuriki and make everyone believe he is dead. He's faked his death before, so why shouldn't he do it again?

Well, that's the theory, so please comment and discuss!

[Rami105]

nice theory my brain is thinking and it could happen but i doubt it

[akhira 231]

nice theory dude, all possibilities are being accepted,

but why is he hiding?

[SKTupac]

Okay, so let's say that's true. Why does Tobi change attitudes later on? Could it be that he is a black zetsu clone now? That would explain why during the Konan vs. Tobi fight, he was dead serious and it looked as though there was black around his sharingan eye. So could the black zetsu be able to regenerate limbs? There are probably other advancements to the black zetsu.

If u say that clone was a black one, he loosed a arm to in that fight, so then he must have the ability to regrow parts too, cause madara still is serious and then this must be also a black one according to your theory.

That way, if Tobi is killed, Madara can go back into the shadows and finish his plan. By then, he can hope to have all the jinchuuriki and make everyone believe he is dead. He's faked his death before, so why shouldn't he do it again?

That is a possibility.

But in all i think the madara/tobi that fought Konan was a clone of zetsu with the white and black side of zetsu. U could obviously see that there was a black side of tobi. And still is a clone of black and white zetsu.

[Vìncent]

sorry dude, but this is wrong, tobi is madara, the reason he was acting goofy was because he was acting goofy on purpose so as not to illicit suspiscion. Tobi could not be zetsu as 1- he used madara's space time techniques, proved to be madara's when he fought yondaime hokage, also, he used a perfected form of izanagi, which is an uchiha and senju clan combined technique, that zetsu could not do as he doesnt posses the bloodline limit of the sharingan ( though he is made from hashirama senju's cells)
overall though, nice try =)

[Vìncent]

also, when tobi was fighting the konoha shinobi, zetsu (black and white) showed up to tell him that itachi had been killed

[SKTupac]

sorry dude, but this is wrong, tobi is madara, the reason he was acting goofy was because he was acting goofy on purpose so as not to illicit suspiscion. Tobi could not be zetsu as 1- he used madara's space time techniques, proved to be madara's when he fought yondaime hokage, also, he used a perfected form of izanagi, which is an uchiha and senju clan combined technique, that zetsu could not do as he doesnt posses the bloodline limit of the sharingan ( though he is made from hashirama senju's cells)
overall though, nice try =)

U're wrong there, zetsu can copy all jutsus, speed and strenght and the same chakra level as the original person. That's why he's so special.

[akaakatsuki]

i agree with the over all idea you threw out there, but i do not think the goofy side of tobi first shown supports your theory. not that it wouldnt fit but you must keep in mind that was already explained to us. madara took on the persona of tobi as a way to hide in his own group, and not be seen as the leader until he choose to be. The personality was a way to be sneaky. now if they were to call madara tobi from time to time then i would wonder if there were two madara's out there ( one of which is the tobi we watched at the start ) but as the personality went away so did the alias. that being said i sooo agree with you that the body being used is a zetsu clone and i would be willing to bet there is a large supply of madara bodies waiting to be used. not all at once like the zetsu dolls ( brainless ) but rather more like with battlestar galactica. you know how when the cylons needed a new body they would transfer the mind from one body to another. what i want to understand is if madara's using a zetsu clone with his... soul for lack off a better word... in the clone then how does the clone have the ability to use ocular abilities like sharingan. anyways most people are arguing that the body under the mask is a clone and i too believe this to be the most lead to answer in the manga. i still would like to hear if anyone still thinks madara is a living person ( not a clone ) and if so who? how did kusame reconise him when he took the mask off if madara is suppost to be dead and unseen for a 100 some odd years??

[Vìncent]

noone can copy bloodline traits, not even zetsu

[lord niijima]

gotta agree with that

[Honord Sage]

Look the so call Tobi reveled Himself as Madara to fish face who then recognize Him as Madara Kisami I think was His name.

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

Tobi could not be zetsu as 1- he used madara's space time techniques, proved to be madara's when he fought yondaime hokage.

Since when was it proved that Madara ever had space-time ninjutsu, lol?

Minato just did a guess, thinking that there couldn't be no other man with such knowledge, power and sinister intentions like Madara.

Real Madara never got that jutsu, it's just smth new that Tobi/Madara came up with after the fight with Hashirama.

[squadboiao]

i think madaras shell of a body is a combination of warriors and white zetsu clone that zetsu helped him put together

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

Look the so call Tobi reveled Himself as Madara to fish face who then recognize Him as Madara Kisami I think was His name.

He only recognized him as Madara because he introduced himself as Madara.

Here you are http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/507/13

And ofcourse the bastard bites himself to snap out of the mind-reading, so we dont see who's the man in the shadows.

[Honord Sage]

Madara and Tobi are one and the same Tobi is a disguise used by Madara when He dose not want the world to know what He is doing that all.

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

Madara and Tobi are one and the same Tobi is a disguise used by Madara when He dose not want the world to know what He is doing that all.

Where was it proven? Please show me that chapter

And if you haven't seen yet, everyone in the world knows about Tobi now, but somehow he still keeps his mask on the face, why? And why is Kishi always hidding his face in the shadows?

There are actually two people in the world who knows Tobi's true identity - Zetsu and Kabuto.

One keeps calling him Tobi and the other one said "You go by the name Madara these days".

[Narutofan123457]

Remember now that if Tobi is a zetsu clone of madara, he will have the same facial features. He could've just cut his hair. And when Madara first met up with kisame and introduced himself as madara, he was actually Tobi, with the mask and short hair.

Also, Zetsu can copy the EXACT replica of a person, the only difference is that they have 1/3 of the chakra. Remember when Kisame fought Zetsu, he was able to use all of his jutsu and everything. Zetsu can copy bloodlines, but he probably has a limit of copying a person at a time. I mean, if he didn't, you wouldn't see an army of white zetsus, you would see an army of Nagatos, Madaras, Itachis, and Kisames. And well.... that would just be cruel.

[xxbkrawkxx]

dude he just acted like a retard to not be seen

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

dude he just acted like a retard to not be seen

Then who are you hidding from? :flaw:

[deluxhollatme]

Actually Zetsu has not shown the ability to copy anyone's jutsu. In the chapter he says that switched places with the Zetsu clone after him and Samheda separated. Once that had happened Killer B and A attacked him and he did not use any jutsu at all. I do believe that the left half of Madara's face was created by Zetsu.

[Booty Sage1914]

Until kishi reveals the truth about Tobi no one knows who he really is. If people read the tobi is izuna uchiha thread you all know my opinion that tobi is both madara and izuna and they alternate appearances.

[Honord Sage]

Where was it proven? Please show me that chapter

And if you haven't seen yet, everyone in the world knows about Tobi now, but somehow he still keeps his mask on the face, why? And why is Kishi always hidding his face in the shadows?

There are actually two people in the world who knows Tobi's true identity - Zetsu and Kabuto.

One keeps calling him Tobi and the other one said "You go by the name Madara these days".

You prove that He is not Madara, and to do so you must show evidence that cannot be reputed, that it can be tested over and over and the same results can be reach. Evidence that leaves no dough of His identity.

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

You prove that He is not Madara, and to do so you must show evidence that cannot be reputed, that it can be tested over and over and the same results can be reach. Evidence that leaves no dough of His identity.

Now wait a second, I was asking to you to provide us with proof. Can you or you cannot do that?

[Honord Sage]

Now wait a second, I was asking to you to provide us with proof. Can you or you cannot do that?

You're the one withe theory out of left field, so it up to you to prove it.

[Narutofan123457]

You prove that He is not Madara, and to do so you must show evidence that cannot be reputed, that it can be tested over and over and the same results can be reach. Evidence that leaves no dough of His identity.

Now wait a second, I was asking to you to provide us with proof. Can you or you cannot do that?

You're the one withe theory out of left field, so it up to you to prove it.

lol, that's a very random fight. I think the fact of the matter is that no one has any proof of who Madara is yet, but we can piece together evidence to support our theories. And let's face it, we're going to have a million of them. So it's okay if you two disagree because people make these theory threads about Madara to talk about differing opinions.