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  1. #1
    Maestro Vega's Avatar
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    Between this World and the Next


    Hello. Quite some time ago I made a theory about Limbo, and it has occurred to me now that something specific from what I originally thought supports what I'm going to show you today.

    In this theory I wish to address the Naruto After-life/"Other Worlds".

    In terms of an Naruto after-life; there is some conflicting views regarding this.

    • Obito after dying met Rin in this White-Zone:
    • Kakashi after dying met his Father in a dark area:
    • Zabuza thought he'd go to hell but said he did not remember it. The next thing he knew he was standing next to Haku.


    This is often used to suggest there is no after-life; however it's possible Zabuza simply may not have remembered it for a variety reasons.(Will come back to this)

    But the thing is Kabuto explained that Edo Tensei calls the souls of the dead from the After-life back to the human plane; suggesting there is some sort of location the souls head to.


    The places Kakashi and Obito went to looked different; which is why I've come up with an explanation. Here's what I found some time ago:

    In Shinto Mythology, one of the sacred locations is Ashihara no Nakatsukuni.
    • Ashihara no Nakatsukuni is described as being the center of reality:
    • Meaning it is the world between Heaven (Takamagahara) and Hell (Yomi).

    So regarding this place's origin and explanation:
    • We know that in Japanese Mythology Izanagi and Izanami were the gods who shaped the world using the Sacred Amenonuboko (Naginata Spear)
    • But they also created Ame-no-ukihashi ("floating bridge of heaven"):
    • Ame-no-ukihashii is the bridge connecting heaven, earth, and hell.


    It's also interesting to note that Rikudo Sennin also shaped the world using the Nunuboku sword.This may hold connection to this as well.

    It would make sense that this could help link with the other worlds.

    Moving on:
    I believe Souls in Naruto use these bridges to reach their final destination. But some souls get lost along the way or stay on these bridges.

    Let's reread what Obito said:

    • "Rin would you wait for me a little longer?"
    • "At least while I'm away at that other world."

    This panel/dialogue suggests that Rin and Obito aren't meeting in heaven (nor hell). Obito asking Rin to wait (for him) insinuates that they met in a world which will take them to their after-life destination. So I believe they met on the Ame-no-ukihashi (bridge) which is located in the Ashihara no Nakatsukuni (world between Heaven and Hell).

    Our next evidence comes from Kakashi's meeting with his father. I want to focus on some specific dialogue:

    "So this is where you've been."

    • "Now I can move on."
    • "I can finally see your mother again."

    It seems Kakashi also met his dad in the world of Ashihara no Nakatsukuni; for Sakumo insinuates that he can now go and meet up with Kakashi's mother (in a different location; probably Heaven).

    I believe both Rin and Sakumo were considered "Lost Souls"; meaning they still had something that needed to be taken care of:
    • Sakumo still needed to meet Kakashi and clear up his death
    • Rin needed to wait for Obito
    • They met in different parts of this world which is why they looked different

    After fulfilling their respective tasks their souls could go to their final destination of the After-life/Other World.

    Next I want to move on to this thing: "The King of Hell"; which I believe also has a connection to the above concepts.


    Firstly the flames next to him resembles hell-fire (and similar to Amaterasu in the manga)


    I believe that this King of Hell has power/authority/jurisdiction over these areas of the Other-World. (Hell, Ashira, Ame-no, etc.)

    On his head is engraved the Kanji for "king" (王). You might be thinking "no shit, he's called the King of Hell."
    But what interests me more is the root etymology/strokes of the Kanji itself (王)
    The three horizontals strokes represent:
    1. Heaven
    2. Man
    3. Earth


    The vertical stroke is the king, the one who connects them together (Heaven/Earth)




    The evidence is here, but in fact there's more.

    Before discussing Naraka, I want to move on to the deva "Yama" (which whom the King of Hell represents).
    The King of Hell is based on the deva known as Yama.
    Yama is the judge of the dead who presides over the Naraka ("Hells" or "Purgatories") realm in the Hindu and Buddhist religion (as well as Japanese and Chinese Mythology).

    Yama decides the "fate" of the dead person. Essentially, Yama chooses whether a person would be sent to heaven, hell, back to the living world, or choose how someone would be reincarnated.

    The spirits of the dead (upon being judged) are supposed to either pass through a term of enjoyment in a region midway between the earth and the heaven of the gods or to undergo their measure of punishment in the nether world.

    He wears traditional robes and a judge's cap or a crown which bears the character 王, "king."

    It's also believed that if you lie to him, he will rip out your tongue.

    With this piece of info and the above; I believe that the Narutoverse has a Yama that makes decisions regarding where the souls of the departed go. I believe this Yama/King sent Obito and Rin's souls to the bridge to meet and leave together; as well as sending Kakashi's soul to meet his father Sakumo ( a "lost soul") to put him at peace. The areas they met at were essentially "Purgatories" and also places on the Floating Bridge/"Other Worlds".

    This would also be the reason why the King of Hell brought Kakashi's soul back from this purgatory type area.

    Of course one who obtains the Rinnegan gains access to the brief ability of Yama/Hell King which would be reviving the dead.

    This is why the King of Hell could release the souls of the dead from his mouth.

    As well as hide them (I found this online, red square isn't important)

    This fits in quite Nicely since Kishi is known to use recurrent Myths/Themes in his work. Dragon Ball did the same thing with King Yemma, I don't see why Kishi can't.

    I'd think it's also best to say that these various locations in the after-life mentioned previously are all grouped together as the "Naraka Realm"; which is why the "Naraka Path" can access the Hell King's abilities, as well as why the Naraka Realm can connect to the Human realm through chakra. "Chakra is the power that connects these two worlds" It's also possible that Hagoromo's Nunoboku helped facilitate in establishing this connection, adhering to the mythology.


    So regarding Zabuza I think its very possible that the Yama decided not to send Zabuza to hell due to his final act of redemption. Zabuza essentially became a "lost soul" floating in the connecting bridges which acted as his per say "Purgatory"/punishment and it's possible that Yama didn't let him remember this time as Zabuza had fufilled his punishment and wasn't genuinely evil. Of course his Soul was eventually "put to rest" by meeting with Kakashi once more and Haku learning that Zabuza loved him, thus showing the good within him.
    Which also represented by the bloody tears as well.

    Going back to the King of Hell; it's something only accessed through the Rinnegan.

    I believe that other clans/people wanted to gain power similar to the Hell King and this led to the eventual discovery of the Reaper/Death God by the Uzumaki Clan.
    But this version was inferior the Rinnegan's Naraka one; therefore he required a sacrifice to use the technique and break it.


    The Uchiha most likely too wanted to obtain this power; as it's interesting to note that the Reaper's mask was used within Nakano Shrine. It's also referred to as "Naka", and The literal usage of "Naka" in Kanji (中) means "inside/between." Granting it has a connection with the Reaper Death Seal, it may very well hold a connection "between this world and the next."

    EDIT:
    First I want to include some things Sparks and Kotori mentioned that fit in Nicely:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    Perhaps the differences in the locations of Sakumo and Rin have to do with the manner of their deaths. Sakumo took his own life when he could no longer stand the vilification of the Leaf due to his abandonment of a mission to save his comrades. He likely regretted leaving his young son alone in such a way, and this might explain why his location is black in color. Rin, on the other hand, is in a white plane likely due to her sacrificing her life in order to protect the Leaf; she didn't die with regrets and just wanted to continue looking over Obito, hence her watching down from the floating bridge of Heaven.

    I find the point about the Uzumaki clan creating the Reaper Death Seal in order to mimic the abilities of the Naraka Path quite interesting. I remember that when Orochimaru and Taka went to the Uzumaki's Noh Mask Hall to get the RDS mask, there were black flames decorating the bottom of the shrine X. These are the same flames that you mentioned appear whenever the King of Hell is summoned with the Naraka Path, further supporting a connection between the two.

    And now that I think about it, Chiyo's resurrection jutsu also mirrors Obito's statement in the last chapter that "Chakra is the power which connects the two worlds". Her jutsu (Kishō Tensei) worked by converting chakra into life force in order to return the soul of the deceased from the afterlife back to his/her body. Her chakra acted as an intermediary to connect the worlds of the living and the dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by kotori View Post
    Nicely done. Id like to add these.

    Hagoromo chakra also travelled as an entity being unsettled what became of ninshu [x] & the feud between sons.[x] [x]
    Obito was unsettled about redeeming his crimes and forced his way back from Ame no Ukihashi.
    Asura and Indra have been transmigrating their chakra years after their death to new hosts restless
    of the difference between their contradicting ideals [x]
    It's like limbo ; restless between two worlds coinciding with the Christian literature limbo-edge of hell.

    Next I want to add that Asuma's soul also met with Shikmaru in the human world as well, showing how the Chakra can be used to connect the worlds.


    Byron123 also brought up a very good point of how the King of Hell also pulls out tongues just like Yama from mythology.


    It's also interesting to note that the King of Hell ate the tongues/souls the same way the Reaper does.


    VIZ Scans (Credits to iNoto) confirms some of my suspicions:
    Obito confirms him and Rin are meeting in an area that will allow them to move on to the next world.

    Obito confirms that he is about to go on to the next world again with Kakashi

    Chakra was the medium to exploit to link the worlds (referred here as energy)





    TL;DR

    • Ashihara no Nakatsukuni is the world between Heaven and Hell.
    • Ame-no-ukihashi is the bridge connecting heaven, earth, and hell.
    • Obito met Rin on this Bridge (Ame-no-Ukihashi)
    • Kakashi met his father somewhere in this world (Ashihara-no-Nakatsukuni)
    • The King of Hell is connected to these worlds which is also shown through his Kanji.
    • The King of Hell represents "Yama"; the one who judges the dead and decides where to send them
    • "Yama" helped make it so Rin and Sakumo's souls to meet with other souls (Obito/Kakashi)
    • This connection would constitute in why Kakashi was brought back with Rinne Tensei via the King of Hell
    • Together these worlds make up the "Naraka Realm."
    • Rinnegan grants limited powers of the King of Hell/Yama
    • Clans tried to replicate this power; this led to the discovery of the Reaper by the Uzumaki
    • Uchiha's Naka Shrine may also hold connection in trying to find this same power (via the tablet)




    Thanks for reading, Vega

     
         
    Last edited by Vega; 08-11-2014 at 10:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Scandalous Grey Walker's Avatar
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    You owe me Premium for reading this

    OT: Nice thought
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Interesting. However, I thinking adding in your assumptions on "moving on" and Yama or whatever was a bit farfetched.
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Quote Originally Posted by Confucius View Post
    Interesting. However, I thinking adding in your assumptions on "moving on" was a bit farfetched.

    Thats why it is a theory!!
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    It's kind of like the afterlife in DBZ, and King Yama infact does judge who goes where. You made good information. Excellent theory, Vega!
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Nicely done. Id like to add these.

    Hagoromo chakra also travelled as an entity being unsettled what became of ninshu [x] & the feud between sons.[x] [x]
    Obito was unsettled about redeeming his crimes and forced his way back from Ame no Ukihashi.
    Asura and Indra have been transmigrating their chakra years after their death to new hosts restless
    of the difference between their contradicting ideals [x]
    It's like limbo ; restless between two worlds coinciding with the Christian literature limbo-edge of hell.

    Altogether , great thread.
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Very awesome, I agree.
     
         

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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    nice read. i agree rin and obito were on a bridge.
    kishi has been hinting at limbo type thiings. madars limbo and him saying to obito hes inbetween this world and the next.
    if that world is connected by chakra, you think kaguya would try to get there for more chakra?
     
         

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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm View Post
    i detect a plot hole
    I detect someone who didn't read.

    OT: Amazing Theory! I like the possibility that Obito's placement in between the planes of Heaven and Hell is the way he was able to return to Kakashi.

    Perhaps the differences in the locations of Sakumo and Rin have to do with the manner of their deaths. Sakumo took his own life when he could no longer stand the vilification of the Leaf due to his abandonment of a mission to save his comrades. He likely regretted leaving his young son alone in such a way, and this might explain why his location is black in color. Rin, on the other hand, is in a white plane likely due to her sacrificing her life in order to protect the Leaf; she didn't die with regrets and just wanted to continue looking over Obito, hence her watching down from the floating bridge of Heaven.

    I find the point about the Uzumaki clan creating the Reaper Death Seal in order to mimic the abilities of the Naraka Path quite interesting. I remember that when Orochimaru and Taka went to the Uzumaki's Noh Mask Hall to get the RDS mask, there were black flames decorating the bottom of the shrine X. These are the same flames that you mentioned appear whenever the King of Hell is summoned with the Naraka Path, further supporting a connection between the two.

    And now that I think about it, Chiyo's resurrection jutsu also mirrors Obito's statement in the last chapter that "Chakra is the power which connects the two worlds". Her jutsu (Kishō Tensei) worked by converting chakra into life force in order to return the soul of the deceased from the afterlife back to his/her body. Her chakra acted as an intermediary to connect the worlds of the living and the dead.
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Excellent thread.

    Nice to know that we still have some excellent theory/thread makers with most of us in retirement.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Very Nice theory, I knew about the both spirit world and physical world are connected by the Lifeforce that can easily be grasp in other word, it's Lifeforce filled with Chakra.. It should be no surprising that Obito comes back as a spirit because we've seen with Naruto&Sasuke reincarnation/incarnation that would migrate the Chakras to the next successor, and we've seen with Hagoromo since he stored the chakra as well as Minato&Kushina inside Naruto.


    With the Edo Tensie it's reverse because in order to bring back, it needs the chakra/lifeforce (Spirit) from the afterlife that would need to fill in the vessels on the person you want to restore as long you have someone to sacrifice.


    However what's impressive is that you pointed out the Shinto mythology with regarding Ame-no-ukihashi (bridge)and the sage of 6th path with human, ashura realm, etc.


    FearX made a theory about the physical and spiritual world and chakra with regarding Kaguya Goals.

    http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=559669


    Since this was clearly proven this chapter, this gave more possibility for Neji Spirit to comeback which was foreshadowed by Hinata, especially this renowned "Phoenix" means rebirth. This Symbolism have clear indication that Neji will somehow emerge as a "Phoenix" ?? Considering Kishimoto havn't explained Backstory with Kaguya& Hamura and the Hyuga Curse seal which could tie in to the Hyuga role.

    So perhaps Neji could possibily a lost soul just before he pass on.
     
         

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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    How ironic would it be if Kishi simply doesn't put much thought behind his storytelling as you think and is just plainly focused on telling an entertaining tale. And then here you are slaving over theories and trying to reason out something of pure entertainment that probably won't ever have an official explanation.

    Makes me super sigh for these threads if that's the truth.

    But A+ for the thought process!
     
         

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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Very nice, I like!
     
         

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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Excellent theory, I think that the afterlife in Naruto is also partly inspired from Buddhism: Edo Tensei's English name is Summon: Impure World Reincarnation, the material world is considered the impure world in contrast with the Pure Lands where enlightened souls depart to after death.
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Great Theory Vega . Is it possible that its the Kamui ability that made Obito move between worlds?
     
         

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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Excellent theory vega! It was a long read, but Kishi might have gotten some inspiration from the stuff you said.
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    I detect someone who didn't read.

    OT: Amazing Theory! I like the possibility that Obito's placement in between the planes of Heaven and Hell is the way he was able to return to Kakashi.

    Perhaps the differences in the locations of Sakumo and Rin have to do with the manner of their deaths. Sakumo took his own life when he could no longer stand the vilification of the Leaf due to his abandonment of a mission to save his comrades. He likely regretted leaving his young son alone in such a way, and this might explain why his location is black in color. Rin, on the other hand, is in a white plane likely due to her sacrificing her life in order to protect the Leaf; she didn't die with regrets and just wanted to continue looking over Obito, hence her watching down from the floating bridge of Heaven.

    I find the point about the Uzumaki clan creating the Reaper Death Seal in order to mimic the abilities of the Naraka Path quite interesting. I remember that when Orochimaru and Taka went to the Uzumaki's Noh Mask Hall to get the RDS mask, there were black flames decorating the bottom of the shrine X. These are the same flames that you mentioned appear whenever the King of Hell is summoned with the Naraka Path, further supporting a connection between the two.

    And now that I think about it, Chiyo's resurrection jutsu also mirrors Obito's statement in the last chapter that "Chakra is the power which connects the two worlds". Her jutsu (Kishō Tensei) worked by converting chakra into life force in order to return the soul of the deceased from the afterlife back to his/her body. Her chakra acted as an intermediary to connect the worlds of the living and the dead.
    Haha very true that guy is just annoying!!


    OT: Amazing Theory!
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Excellent thread.

    Not gonna lie, this kind of threads really makes me feel inadequate . I wish I have the desire to delve into Japanese myth or read a lot.

    Anyway, your theory makes lots of sense.
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Interesting read. The idea of different level of consciousness, plane of existence or parallel universe are pretty common in eastern philosophies.

    I would just put some more details of a related school to chew on:

    Buddhism suggests that the alleviation of suffering was far more important, and that focusing on the goal of ultimate salvation. For focusing on goal would only lead to more attachments, and therefore more suffering. Heaven and hell are not permanent states either and people can leave them when their karma which lead them there is over. Tibetan Buddhism includes Bardo where self stays till next rebirth (Buddhism do not have even sould technically as we interpret it. Just a consciousness of self).

    In Tibetan Buddhism the Tibetan Book of the Dead explains the intermediate state of humans between death and reincarnation. The deceased will find the bright light of wisdom, which shows a straightforward path to move upward and leave the cycle of reincarnation. There are various reasons why the deceased do not follow that light. Some had no briefing about the intermediate state in the former life. Others only used to follow their basic instincts like animals. And some have fear, which results from foul deeds in the former life or from insistent haughtiness. In the intermediate state the awareness is very flexible, so it is important to be virtuous, adopt a positive attitude, and avoid negative ideas. Ideas which are rising from subconsciousness can cause extreme tempers and cowing visions. In this situation they have to understand, that these manifestations are just reflections of the inner thoughts. No one can really hurt them, because they have no more material body. The deceased get help from different Buddhas who show them the path to the bright light. The ones who do not follow the path after all will get hints for a better reincarnation. They have to release the things and beings on which or whom they still hang from the life before.
    -Wiki.
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    This thread is why I like narutobase , bravo ★Vega
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    It has literally been months since the last time I read such a good theory! Bravo! A thing that you might want to add abotu Yama is that in the ripping one's tongue because of lying is something that has also been shown in the naruto anime, if not also in the manga.

    I'll quote narutopedia: "After answers are given, the King of Hell will unzip its mouth to release tendril-like arms and would draw out an apparition of the victim's life force energy in the form of an enlarged tongue. The King of Hell would then proceed to pass its judgement. If the person was lying or refused to answer the questions, the King of Hell would remove their tongue and consume it, apparently killing them. However, if they told the truth, they would be spared, although left extremely exhausted."

     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Very nice thread .
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Amazing as always, I loved reading it. Sparks already covered what I would have made a comment on (Sakumo's black zone and Rin's white zone), other than that I can see nothing that was left out and I completely agree with everything. Awesome job bro!

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron123 View Post
    A thing that you might want to add abotu Yama is that in the ripping one's tongue because of lying is something that has also been shown in the naruto anime, if not also in the manga.

    Nice find, I looked for it in the manga (during Pain vs. Konoha) but I couldn't find a panel of it :/
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Quote Originally Posted by Gokuy View Post
    It's kind of like the afterlife in DBZ, and King Yama infact does judge who goes where. You made good information. Excellent theory, Vega!
    Thanks and Precisely!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Orange Hokage View Post
    Very awesome, I agree.
    Thanks Your ava is also good
    Quote Originally Posted by adeshina365 View Post
    Excellent thread.
    Nice to know that we still have some excellent theory/thread makers with most of us in retirement.
    Thanks lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMist View Post
    Excellent theory vega! It was a long read, but Kishi might have gotten some inspiration from the stuff you said.
    Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagatō View Post
    Haha very true that guy is just annoying!!
    OT: Amazing Theory!
    Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by Taimaidamshoo View Post
    How ironic would it be if Kishi simply doesn't put much thought behind his storytelling as you think and is just plainly focused on telling an entertaining tale. And then here you are slaving over theories and trying to reason out something of pure entertainment that probably won't ever have an official explanation.

    Makes me super sigh for these threads if that's the truth.

    But A+ for the thought process!
    lol, and thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by mohdzarif View Post
    Excellent thread.

    Not gonna lie, this kind of threads really makes me feel inadequate . I wish I have the desire to delve into Japanese myth or read a lot.

    Anyway, your theory makes lots of sense.
    lol thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minatoxx View Post
    This thread is why I like narutobase , bravo ★Vega
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by kotori View Post
    Nicely done. Id like to add these.

    Hagoromo chakra also travelled as an entity being unsettled what became of ninshu [x] & the feud between sons.[x] [x]
    Obito was unsettled about redeeming his crimes and forced his way back from Ame no Ukihashi.
    Asura and Indra have been transmigrating their chakra years after their death to new hosts restless
    of the difference between their contradicting ideals [x]
    It's like limbo ; restless between two worlds coinciding with the Christian literature limbo-edge of hell.

    Altogether , great thread.
    Good points, added to the OP

    Quote Originally Posted by obikage View Post
    nice read. i agree rin and obito were on a bridge.
    kishi has been hinting at limbo type thiings. madars limbo and him saying to obito hes inbetween this world and the next.
    if that world is connected by chakra, you think kaguya would try to get there for more chakra?
    Thanks! You actually bring up a very excellent point, I hadn't thought of that lol. I could definitely see Kaguya trying to escape into the After-life and possibly a confrontation occur with the Reaper there, as they have uncanny resemblance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    I detect someone who didn't read.

    OT: Amazing Theory! I like the possibility that Obito's placement in between the planes of Heaven and Hell is the way he was able to return to Kakashi.

    Perhaps the differences in the locations of Sakumo and Rin have to do with the manner of their deaths. Sakumo took his own life when he could no longer stand the vilification of the Leaf due to his abandonment of a mission to save his comrades. He likely regretted leaving his young son alone in such a way, and this might explain why his location is black in color. Rin, on the other hand, is in a white plane likely due to her sacrificing her life in order to protect the Leaf; she didn't die with regrets and just wanted to continue looking over Obito, hence her watching down from the floating bridge of Heaven.

    I find the point about the Uzumaki clan creating the Reaper Death Seal in order to mimic the abilities of the Naraka Path quite interesting. I remember that when Orochimaru and Taka went to the Uzumaki's Noh Mask Hall to get the RDS mask, there were black flames decorating the bottom of the shrine X. These are the same flames that you mentioned appear whenever the King of Hell is summoned with the Naraka Path, further supporting a connection between the two.

    And now that I think about it, Chiyo's resurrection jutsu also mirrors Obito's statement in the last chapter that "Chakra is the power which connects the two worlds". Her jutsu (Kishō Tensei) worked by converting chakra into life force in order to return the soul of the deceased from the afterlife back to his/her body. Her chakra acted as an intermediary to connect the worlds of the living and the dead.
    You bring up a very excellent point Sparks, added to the OP I never even thought about the Chiyo connection lol, and the black flames is another good Point. As you said, perhaps those flames, the King of Hell, and maybe even Amaterasu are all linked together.

    Quote Originally Posted by narutoshippudenworld View Post
    Very Nice theory, I knew about the both spirit world and physical world are connected by the Lifeforce that can easily be grasp in other word, it's Lifeforce filled with Chakra.. It should be no surprising that Obito comes back as a spirit because we've seen with Naruto&Sasuke reincarnation/incarnation that would migrate the Chakras to the next successor, and we've seen with Hagoromo since he stored the chakra as well as Minato&Kushina inside Naruto.


    With the Edo Tensie it's reverse because in order to bring back, it needs the chakra/lifeforce (Spirit) from the afterlife that would need to fill in the vessels on the person you want to restore as long you have someone to sacrifice.


    However what's impressive is that you pointed out the Shinto mythology with regarding Ame-no-ukihashi (bridge)and the sage of 6th path with human, ashura realm, etc.


    FearX made a theory about the physical and spiritual world and chakra with regarding Kaguya Goals.

    http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=559669


    Since this was clearly proven this chapter, this gave more possibility for Neji Spirit to comeback which was foreshadowed by Hinata, especially this renowned "Phoenix" means rebirth. This Symbolism have clear indication that Neji will somehow emerge as a "Phoenix" ?? Considering Kishimoto havn't explained Backstory with Kaguya& Hamura and the Hyuga Curse seal which could tie in to the Hyuga role.

    So perhaps Neji could possibily a lost soul just before he pass on.
    Thanks! and you bring up a very great point about Neji! I hadn't even considered that tbh, I think Hamura holds the secrets there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Derp Obito View Post
    Excellent theory, I think that the afterlife in Naruto is also partly inspired from Buddhism: Edo Tensei's English name is Summon: Impure World Reincarnation, the material world is considered the impure world in contrast with the Pure Lands where enlightened souls depart to after death.
    Thanks, and I agree with you Now Kishi just needs to Explain the tablet connection.
    Quote Originally Posted by kazekaine View Post
    Great Theory Vega . Is it possible that its the Kamui ability that made Obito move between worlds?
    Thanks! I think you're right, I think Kamui was the reason Obito was able to do so. The thing with Indra/Ashura was that their Chakra/genes were being passed down the ancestry, while Obito was an unique person. So I guess if he wanted he could essentially continue to possess people and never die

    Quote Originally Posted by Ira View Post
    Interesting read. The idea of different level of consciousness, plane of existence or parallel universe are pretty common in eastern philosophies.

    I would just put some more details of a related school to chew on:

    Buddhism suggests that the alleviation of suffering was far more important, and that focusing on the goal of ultimate salvation. For focusing on goal would only lead to more attachments, and therefore more suffering. Heaven and hell are not permanent states either and people can leave them when their karma which lead them there is over. Tibetan Buddhism includes Bardo where self stays till next rebirth (Buddhism do not have even sould technically as we interpret it. Just a consciousness of self).



    -Wiki.
    Thanks, I like what you mentioned about regarding the Buddhist school of thought. And Bardo reminded me a lot about Hagoromo and how he travels to meet the reincarnates as well. The alleviation of suffering also fits in nicely in allowing the souls to meet up (kak/Sakumo/etc.) to get rid of that burden. Good point

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron123 View Post
    It has literally been months since the last time I read such a good theory! Bravo! A thing that you might want to add abotu Yama is that in the ripping one's tongue because of lying is something that has also been shown in the naruto anime, if not also in the manga.

    I'll quote narutopedia: "After answers are given, the King of Hell will unzip its mouth to release tendril-like arms and would draw out an apparition of the victim's life force energy in the form of an enlarged tongue. The King of Hell would then proceed to pass its judgement. If the person was lying or refused to answer the questions, the King of Hell would remove their tongue and consume it, apparently killing them. However, if they told the truth, they would be spared, although left extremely exhausted."

    Thanks
    Ah good point indeed!
    I looked in the manga, and found this:

    I'll add them to the OP
    (It's also interesting to note that the King of Hell ate the tongues/souls the same way the Reaper does.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Magatsu Izanagi View Post
    Amazing as always, I loved reading it. Sparks already covered what I would have made a comment on (Sakumo's black zone and Rin's white zone), other than that I can see nothing that was left out and I completely agree with everything. Awesome job bro!


    Nice find, I looked for it in the manga (during Pain vs. Konoha) but I couldn't find a panel of it :/
    Thanks!
    And check above, those are it right?
     
         

  25. #25
    Hokage Byron123's Avatar
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    Re: Between this World and the Next

    Quote Originally Posted by Vega View Post

    Thanks and Precisely!

    Thanks Your ava is also good

    Thanks lol.

    Thank you

    Thank you

    lol, and thanks!

    lol thanks.

    Thanks


    Good points, added to the OP


    Thanks! You actually bring up a very excellent point, I hadn't thought of that lol. I could definitely see Kaguya trying to escape into the After-life and possibly a confrontation occur with the Reaper there, as they have uncanny resemblance.

    You bring up a very excellent point Sparks, added to the OP I never even thought about the Chiyo connection lol, and the black flames is another good Point. As you said, perhaps those flames, the King of Hell, and maybe even Amaterasu are all linked together.


    Thanks! and you bring up a very great point about Neji! I hadn't even considered that tbh, I think Hamura holds the secrets there.


    Thanks, and I agree with you Now Kishi just needs to Explain the tablet connection.

    Thanks! I think you're right, I think Kamui was the reason Obito was able to do so. The thing with Indra/Ashura was that their Chakra/genes were being passed down the ancestry, while Obito was an unique person. So I guess if he wanted he could essentially continue to possess people and never die


    Thanks, I like what you mentioned about regarding the Buddhist school of thought. And Bardo reminded me a lot about Hagoromo and how he travels to meet the reincarnates as well. The alleviation of suffering also fits in nicely in allowing the souls to meet up (kak/Sakumo/etc.) to get rid of that burden. Good point


    Thanks
    Ah good point indeed!
    I looked in the manga, and found this:

    I'll add them to the OP
    (It's also interesting to note that the King of Hell ate the tongues/souls the same way the Reaper does.)

    Thanks!
    And check above, those are it right?
    In anime in fact Yama's connection became clearer because there instead of having both of the 2 shinobi lying, one was saying the truth so his tongue was spared and so he did as well.
     
         

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