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  1. #1
    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    The way I see it, Kakashi had no relevance to the fight before this point, he himself admitted it. Sawyer7 continued to mention week in week out that he was struggling to see how Kakashi could stay relevant, but he believed Kishi would find a way to do so. If Kishi were to give Kakashi Susanoo at any level below PS, it would be completely irrelevant to both the plot and to the fight.

    To be more specific, are you mad that he has PS or that he has Susanoo in general? I mean if Kakashi only had stage one (ribcage only) Susanoo would that have made you happier? What if he had armored (no legs) Susanoo? Would there be any level of Susanoo that you would have been okay with him having? I think the majority of NB would prefer he didn't have it at all, temporary or not. Fact is that any level below PS would have been pointless because we already saw Sasuke go through all of them. Between Sasuke and Itachi we saw virtually every possible layer of Susanoo. So in terms of plot, having Kakashi have one of those lower stages of Susanoo would be completely pointless.

    In terms of the battle, if Kakashi had anything lower than PS his assistance would be mediocre at best. Only with PS does he stand to make any real difference in the battle. The way I see it, once Kishi decided to give Kakashi Susanoo, he might as well have given him PS so he actually stands to make a difference. Call it an asspull if you want but in terms of plot and relevance to the current battle, PS was the best choice among the known stages of Susanoo for Kishi to give Kakashi.
     
         

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    Senior Member obikage's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    exactly. some where hoping for a obito susanoo, but others were like noo it wouldnt be good enough if its not perfect. now that its here people are complaing lol
     
         

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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Kakashi wasn't relevant to the plot since he ''died'' at the pain arc.
     
         

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    Senior Member Romy9's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Being mad is a bit of an exaggeration but Kishimoto really did pull one out of God knows where. Obito never showed any Susanoo to begin with, and not only did he use his Kamui dimension to defy death and empower Kakashi, but he/or/and Kakashi pulled a Perfect Susanoo out.

    Considering he was a complete fodder literally chapter ago, it's hard to digest such a "miracle" happened, specially when you don't know how he's able to pull out such a high degree technique. Copying it is out of the question, he has no stamina nor chakra to pull it out. What's left there to interpret? I could only say Naruto helped him in the stamina department but the rest is beyond me.
     
         

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    真実 Trúth's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    I was hoping for a susanoo from him. A PS pisses me off.
     
         

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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereignty View Post
    Kakashi wasn't relevant to the plot since he ''died'' at the pain arc.
     
         

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    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereignty View Post
    Kakashi wasn't relevant to the plot since he ''died'' at the pain arc.
    Aww that's not true. Remember his fight with Sasuke? Wait Sasuke didn't have Suanoo there.... but Kishi still tried .

    Quote Originally Posted by Romy9 View Post
    Being mad is a bit of an exaggeration but Kishimoto really did pull one out of God knows where. Obito never showed any Susanoo to begin with, and not only did he use his Kamui dimension to defy death and empower Kakashi, but he/or/and Kakashi pulled a Perfect Susanoo out.

    Considering he was a complete fodder literally chapter ago, it's hard to digest such a "miracle" happened, specially when you don't know how he's able to pull out such a high degree technique. Copying it is out of the question, he has no stamina nor chakra to pull it out. What's left there to interpret? I could only say Naruto helped him in the stamina department but the rest is beyond me.
    But would you have been surprised if Obito used Susanoo knowing he gained duel MS? What about him not using Izanagi? Reason is he wanted to die, so he didn't use them. As for Kakashi using Susanoo, he has a chakra boost from Obito.
     
         

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    Senior Member Romy9's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    But would you have been surprised if Obito used Susanoo knowing he gained duel MS? What about him not using Izanagi? Reason is he wanted to die, so he didn't use them. As for Kakashi using them, he has a chakra boost from Obito.
    I wouldn't. Even though Itachi said that one has to have Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo, that ship has sailed when Madara took it to another level without those techniques. So yeah, I'd swallow that one. What I can't swallow is the perfect form of it. And Kakashi handling it no less, without an Uchiha body. When you remember the strain on Kakashi's body with only one eye, you gotta wonder what 2 of them would do to him. Chakra or not, it's not supposed to work. But I guess, the argument for that would be that the eye didn't actually materialize. But then again, with that argument, it just sounds ridiculous.
     
         

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    Senior Member Shaz's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    I honestly don't have a problem with it. It was hinted last chapter that we might see a Kakashi power up. I don't get why this is so surprising for people? I believe some people are overreacting to something they have no control over.
     
         

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    Senior Member Romy9's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaz130 View Post
    I honestly don't have a problem with it. It was hinted last chapter that we might see a Kakashi power up. I don't get why this is so surprising for people? I believe some people are overreacting to something they have no control over.
    I also don't have any problem with it. But I obviously can't oversee the fallacy with logic that Kishimoto built thus far in the story.
     
         

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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    I think when Obito's body was disintegrating from Kaguya's attack , then Naruto tried to give him his RM chakra. So that might had helped Kakashi in developing a PS coz other than Obito's chakra, Naruto's RM chakra was also present..
    Just a food for thought..
     
         

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    Senior Member The Orange Hokage's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    If kakashi can't kamui with his PS, It would be a wasteful powerup since Kaguya would low diff him.
    But im fine with it....
     
         

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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Admittedly I thought it was dumb initially myself, but after thinking about it for a moment I was able to realize how it makes sense plot wise. Ultimately it just caught everyone off guard, not in a good way, but perfectly acceptable in the established NV.
     
         

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    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by Trúth View Post
    I was hoping for a susanoo from him. A PS pisses me off.
    You were hoping for Susanoo? Or were you not expecting it and would have just been satisfied with a less perfect version? Again, think about it in terms of plot and you'll realize the strongest form of Susanoo is the most relevant in this situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romy9 View Post
    I wouldn't. Even though Itachi said that one has to have Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo, that ship has sailed when Madara took it to another level without those techniques. So yeah, I'd swallow that one. What I can't swallow is the perfect form of it. And Kakashi handling it no less, without an Uchiha body. When you remember the strain on Kakashi's body with only one eye, you gotta wonder what 2 of them would do to him. Chakra or not, it's not supposed to work. But I guess, the argument for that would be that the eye didn't actually materialize. But then again, with that argument, it just sounds ridiculous.
    Itachi didn't really state they were requirements, only that they were unlocked together for him. The databook was what stated they were required, but this was under the assumption of Itachi alone. Once more characters were given the technique, of course it makes sense that those 2 aren't actual requirements, but simply one way to unlock it. If your stuck on the mythological aspect (ie Japanese history) than I can see the frustration but its clear that only 2 MS are a requirement and not Tsu/Ama in particular.

    But it is about the chakra. One could argue that Obito's assistance currently doubled or even tripled Kakashi's maximum level of chakra. With that, one could imagine him handling it. About the Perfect form, consider again his now relevant role in the battle. If he had any level of Susanoo below this, would he really be of great use? Would his character, or the general plot for that matter, benefit from Kakashi showing a progression through Susanoo? No. It simply makes more sense for the plot.
     
         

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    Member jiraiya nindo's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Stage 1 susanoo would've made me extremely happy cus it would've been realistic. Then kishi could've had it set up where sasuke would've had to help kakashi bring out his full PS. That would've led to some good character development between sasuke and kakashi as well. There are a million ways kishi could've done that better without making it an asspull
     
         

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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post

    Itachi didn't really state they were requirements, only that they were unlocked together for him. The databook was what stated they were required, but this was under the assumption of Itachi alone. Once more characters were given the technique, of course it makes sense that those 2 aren't actual requirements, but simply one way to unlock it. If your stuck on the mythological aspect (ie Japanese history) than I can see the frustration but its clear that only 2 MS are a requirement and not Tsu/Ama in particular.

    But it is about the chakra. One could argue that Obito's assistance currently doubled or even tripled Kakashi's maximum level of chakra. With that, one could imagine him handling it. About the Perfect form, consider again his now relevant role in the battle. If he had any level of Susanoo below this, would he really be of great use? Would his character, or the general plot for that matter, benefit from Kakashi showing a progression through Susanoo? No. It simply makes more sense for the plot.
    Obviously if Madara had it without Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi.

    No matter the sense for the plot if the logic behind the mechanics of events lacks. If chakra alone dictates his usage of the eyes and materialization of the Perfect form of Susanoo, something's definitely off here then. And then you have the body that is needed to properly operate the Sharingan, which Kakashi obviously doesn't have, no matter chakra. If you're trying to connect what Kishi said in the past with present events, the last chapter was a whole lot of gibberish.
     
         

  17. #17
    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by jiraiya nindo View Post
    Stage 1 susanoo would've made me extremely happy cus it would've been realistic. Then kishi could've had it set up where sasuke would've had to help kakashi bring out his full PS. That would've led to some good character development between sasuke and kakashi as well. There are a million ways kishi could've done that better without making it an asspull
    Ok I respect that, but is there really room in the battle right now for training to occur? Surely Sasuke having to teach Kakashi how to use it would put them both in greater danger. Don't tell me you'd believe Sasuke would willingly help Kakashi improve himself in this situation? No he'd just focus on using combo attacks with Naruto and let Kakashi figure it out for himself.

    Again I respect the idea and like it, but in the current situation plot allowing for Kakashi to make a logical progression through Susanoo stages makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romy9 View Post
    Obviously if Madara had it without Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi.

    No matter the sense for the plot if the logic behind the mechanics of events lacks. If chakra alone dictates his usage of the eyes and materialization of the Perfect form of Susanoo, something's definitely off here then. And then you have the body that is needed to properly operate the Sharingan, which Kakashi obviously doesn't have, no matter chakra. If you're trying to connect what Kishi said in the past with present events, the last chapter was a whole lot of gibberish.
    I'm not trying to completely defend Kishi in this situation. I will say bluntly that I don't disagree there is logic missing. My point is that independent of past dictated logic, in terms of plot this makes more sense to the situation. I don't expect people to understand where I'm coming from, but while I disagree with how Kishi went about it, personal logic dictates that this is the only way Kakashi can make a difference.
     
         
    Last edited by Floydical; 08-08-2014 at 07:36 PM.

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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    I agree so so much with you. A lot of us called it an asspull at the first reaction because it did caught us off guard.
    I don't have a problem with it, even though the PS is still a bit hard to sink in. Though, I'm the same with Sawyer; Obito "coming back" was the hardest for me to swallow. After that, I'm just like WTF I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON ANYMORE.
     
         

  19. #19
    Senior Member Romy9's Avatar
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    Re: My way of coping with Kakashi's PS

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    I'm not trying to completely defend Kishi in this situation. I will say bluntly that I don't disagree there is logic missing. My point is that independent of past dictated logic, in terms of plot this makes more sense to the situation. I don't expect people to understand where I'm coming from, but while I disagree with how Kishi went about it, personal logic dictates that this is the only way Kakashi can make a difference.
    I can agree with this post. Objective logic that Kishi built in the past dictates that this shouldn't be possible by many accounts, but for Kakashi to redeem himself and unfodderize, this is the only way.
     
         

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