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  1. #41
    Member AndreJNZ's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    One clone. Yes I do recall. Let me go see------->

    Yup. Even faster. Basically, he forms the shape himself and uses a clone for the Nature manipulation. In Sage Mode, of course.
     
         

  2. #42
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    naruto can learn to do rasengan with just one hand. it's just that he feels comfortable with the way he does it now.
     
         

  3. #43
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by lord niijima View Post
    naruto can learn to do rasengan with just one hand. it's just that he feels comfortable with the way he does it now.
    Yeah I was thinking that, it makes sense... Why change your tactics when it works.
     
         

  4. #44
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by -The Agent- View Post
    Yeah I was thinking that, it makes sense... Why change your tactics when it works.
    One word SPEED, im guessing for naruto to make a shadow clone and then form the rasengan he need's bettwen 3-5 seconds and in the ninja world that's a awful amount of time, with one handed rasengan he could do it in 1-2 seconds
     
         

  5. #45
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by Modaro View Post
    I have a problem with naruto Saying he needs a clone to do rasengan.

    1. THE SHADOW CLONE TECHNIQUE
    This Technique divides the user into equal copies of him/herself right down to chakra. The clones can move independently from the original naruto's will but does not have separate personalities. Therefore Naruto will think of a plan or strategy and his clone will have that same plan to carry out. They are basically and simply another naruto, not tied to one mind, they can think for themselves.
    __________________________________________________ _________
    Now the reason Naruto need his clone to do rasengan is because he could not concentrate on both shape manipulation, compressing the chakra at the same time. So basically it is two separate naruto's doing the same technique, Two Heads in the same Hole.

    When Naruto had the one tailed cloak at the valley of end he did a one handed rasengan, kishi didn't tell us how he did it so here is what I think. Sasuke couldn't predict the movements of both naruto and the the chakra cloak, he stated "it was like the chakra had a mind of its own." Well yes he was correct, the 9tails was in control, while naruto stile had some control. The fox was the next mind/head focusing chakra in that situation helping to preform the rasengan.
    __________________________________________________ _________
    2. The TAILED BEAST BOMB
    It was said that this move was the inspiration for rasengan having the same, rotation and compression principles. Therefore Naruto should use clones, but he was told not to use clones.

    Instead he was forced to create chakra arms from the Rikodu cloak.

    Because Naruto is controlling the fox chakra it should still prove too difficult a task since there is only one mind involved in making the beast bomb, the same dumb naruto mind that could not handle the overload of rotation and compression in the beginning of that same manga. How the hell all of a sudden is it that he is able to COMPRESSION, ROTATION, by himself. I mean all along it was too much load on his brain to preform two tasks at once so he created another copy of himself so it can do the other task for him and ease the overload on his tiny brain.

    I BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS A MAJOR CONTRADICTION IN MANGA

    Good point, but the reasons why Naruto needs a clone hasn't really been discussed by kishi very well. I believe there's a bigger reason why Naruto needs a close throughout his life. Also note naruto in sage mode doesn't need a clone and he only needed one clone to form a wind rasengan when he was fighting the fox in his mind.

    So In my opinion the reason why Naruto all this time was unable to do a rasnegan by himself was stemmed by the fox himself. So now that fox can't control naruto directly he's able to do a solo rasengan. I talked about this in that thread "naruto a unique host" if you call our arguments.

    Long story short I think alot of people didn't think much of naruto needing a clone to do a rasengan but I reakon its something kishi added to the story for GOOD reason. And I reakon its ALL FOX RELATED.
     
         

  6. #46
    Senior Member Modaro's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by -The Agent- View Post
    Yeah I was thinking that, it makes sense... Why change your tactics when it works.
    HMMMMMMMMMMM....
    first it wold be alone faster second he would save chakra from making a clone.
     
         

  7. #47
    Member AndreJNZ's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    Good point, but the reasons why Naruto needs a clone hasn't really been discussed by kishi very well. I believe there's a bigger reason why Naruto needs a close throughout his life. Also note naruto in sage mode doesn't need a clone and he only needed one clone to form a wind rasengan when he was fighting the fox in his mind.

    So In my opinion the reason why Naruto all this time was unable to do a rasnegan by himself was stemmed by the fox himself. So now that fox can't control naruto directly he's able to do a solo rasengan. I talked about this in that thread "naruto a unique host" if you call our arguments.

    Long story short I think alot of people didn't think much of naruto needing a clone to do a rasengan but I reakon its something kishi added to the story for GOOD reason. And I reakon its ALL FOX RELATED.
    I like your Opinion, but I disagree about the Fox influence. Just my Opinion.
     
         

  8. #48
    Member AndreJNZ's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by Modaro View Post
    HMMMMMMMMMMM....
    first it wold be alone faster second he would save chakra from making a clone.
    You do realize that when the Clone dissipates, the chakra that was in the clone is returned back to the Jutsu Caster? Naruto continually dispels the Clones after forming the Rasengan. So there really isn't ckakra lost.
     
         

  9. #49
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    Good point, but the reasons why Naruto needs a clone hasn't really been discussed by kishi very well. I believe there's a bigger reason why Naruto needs a close throughout his life. Also note naruto in sage mode doesn't need a clone and he only needed one clone to form a wind rasengan when he was fighting the fox in his mind.

    So In my opinion the reason why Naruto all this time was unable to do a rasnegan by himself was stemmed by the fox himself. So now that fox can't control naruto directly he's able to do a solo rasengan. I talked about this in that thread "naruto a unique host" if you call our arguments.

    Long story short I think alot of people didn't think much of naruto needing a clone to do a rasengan but I reakon its something kishi added to the story for GOOD reason. And I reakon its ALL FOX RELATED.
    Good point indeed because naruto's seal was designed let some of the foxes chakra naturally mix with naruto's own. If you have notice the fox is very unconcerned when it comes to chakra use, it usually over does it, and I think naruto has inherited that. Because naruto as stated by kakashi with the clone jutsu in the early's Naruto usually adds way to much chakra when he is trying to learn a jutsu.

    The point I'm trying to make is that naruto lacked the concentration all along to focus on all the tasks involved in rasengan which is why he need ed a clone but in Rikudo mode he jut needs an extra pair of hands. I found that to be a contradiction in its self. It felt like Kishi didn't want 1000 Rikudo Naruto's running around(because that would be total pwnage) so he said no clones, but he still wanted him to complete the rasengan so he just gave him some extra arms.

    Think about it its crazy rite
     
         

  10. #50
    Senior Comedian Member -The Agent-'s Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by Modaro View Post
    HMMMMMMMMMMM....
    first it wold be alone faster second he would save chakra from making a clone.
    Naruto is a Chakra bottomless pit saving chakra is never on his mind. but time? Remember when he destroyed the deva path? 5 second interval used a clone rasengan and the clone launched him at the Path just in time. I don't think speed is a problem. (just my opinion though)
     
         

  11. #51
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    you know what, past this theory discussion it honestly annoys me that the jutsu naruto has been doing for years now he can't even do without clones. Jariah, Kakashi and Minato can all do it with one hand. So Naruto and his dumbness obviously overlooked a vital part of the technique, and of course he taught Konahamaru the technique so now that poor kid is making the same mistake as Naruto. Even Kakashi, who using his sharingan copied it from Naruto can do it with one hand so for god sakes can someone please show him how to do it properly!!!

    ...that feels better
     
         

  12. #52
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Actually To be honest Minato, Jairaya, kakashi had incomplete forms of the rasengan. This was proven when kakashi and naruto clashed there rasengans together and narutos took over kakashis, its possible to create the rasengan in one hand but only a incomplete one. Narutos (with clones) is the complete form in which needs alot more skill to create. I know its only been shown kakashis was incomplete but i'd say its the same with minato's and jairayas.. End of topic.
     
         

  13. #53
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by Modaro View Post
    Good point indeed because naruto's seal was designed let some of the foxes chakra naturally mix with naruto's own. If you have notice the fox is very unconcerned when it comes to chakra use, it usually over does it, and I think naruto has inherited that. Because naruto as stated by kakashi with the clone jutsu in the early's Naruto usually adds way to much chakra when he is trying to learn a jutsu.

    The point I'm trying to make is that naruto lacked the concentration all along to focus on all the tasks involved in rasengan which is why he need ed a clone but in Rikudo mode he jut needs an extra pair of hands. I found that to be a contradiction in its self. It felt like Kishi didn't want 1000 Rikudo Naruto's running around(because that would be total pwnage) so he said no clones, but he still wanted him to complete the rasengan so he just gave him some extra arms.

    Think about it its crazy rite
    Possibly, but we also don't know what the extend of this illusion in naruto's head really entails, because its the illusion that controls the chakra to make arms which in turn is controled by naruto's imagination. This is starting to look like half of the so6p's izanagi actually.

    Come to think of that whole fight against the fox in naruto mind needs a bit of explanation if you ask me.
     
         
    Last edited by psukkar; 12-14-2010 at 02:52 AM.

  14. #54
    Member AndreJNZ's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by pureozzy101 View Post
    Actually To be honest Minato, Jairaya, kakashi had incomplete forms of the rasengan. This was proven when kakashi and naruto clashed there rasengans together and narutos took over kakashis, its possible to create the rasengan in one hand but only a incomplete one. Narutos (with clones) is the complete form in which needs alot more skill to create. I know its only been shown kakashis was incomplete but i'd say its the same with minato's and jairayas.. End of topic.
    Did you mean that Naruto added the Nature manipulation and then beat the Normal Rasengan of Kakashi? Please rephrase your post,dude. It doesn't make real sense.
    Yes its true that Rasengan is not a complete Tech, as it was meant to have had Nature Manipulation added to it as well (Told by Kakashi in story).
    And the form/power and spin of Kakashi's Normal Rasengan should be on par with Naruto's normal Rasengan. Why do you say that the Creator's and others' are INCOMPLETE?
     
         

  15. #55
    The White Snake Orochimaru the Snake's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    he can't do it with out clones that time in the frog's mouth with Pain you could see the smoke from the clones dissapear

    he can't do it with out clones yet
     
         

  16. #56
    Senior Member Modaro's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by -The Agent- View Post
    Naruto is a Chakra bottomless pit saving chakra is never on his mind. but time? Remember when he destroyed the deva path? 5 second interval used a clone rasengan and the clone launched him at the Path just in time. I don't think speed is a problem. (just my opinion though)
    Of course speed is an issue, That battle between naruto and pain you speak of could never be an example of his speed beacause naruto already had like a dozen clone out, so that refence makes no sense.

    But however the creator of he rasengan Minato has shown us just how fast a one handed rasengan can be in his battle of speed with Madara Uchiha. Do you think if he has to use a clone he would of won? The answer is no.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/16

    Plus Naruto's Chakra can run out he has alot but it can run out.
     
         

  17. #57
    Senior Member Modaro's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by pureozzy101 View Post
    Actually To be honest Minato, Jairaya, kakashi had incomplete forms of the rasengan. This was proven when kakashi and naruto clashed there rasengans together and narutos took over kakashis, its possible to create the rasengan in one hand but only a incomplete one. Narutos (with clones) is the complete form in which needs alot more skill to create. I know its only been shown kakashis was incomplete but i'd say its the same with minato's and jairayas.. End of topic.
    Dude Minato Jariya and Kakashi all had the complete form of rasengan I don't Know what gave u that idea. Don't forget although the rasengan is a incomplete justu it is a jutsu in itself.

    Naruto blasted Kakashi rasengan with a windrelease rasengan that why kashahsi's rasengan got owned.
    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Wind_Release:_Rasengan
     
         

  18. #58
    Senior Comedian Member -The Agent-'s Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by Modaro View Post
    Of course speed is an issue, That battle between naruto and pain you speak of could never be an example of his speed beacause naruto already had like a dozen clone out, so that refence makes no sense.

    But however the creator of he rasengan Minato has shown us just how fast a one handed rasengan can be in his battle of speed with Madara Uchiha. Do you think if he has to use a clone he would of won? The answer is no.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/16

    Plus Naruto's Chakra can run out he has alot but it can run out.
    Obviously Minato's style of attack is different from Naruto's style. The pain fight is a perfect example because he didn't have the speed that his father had...so he uses clones to help him. 5 second interval and his clones help him make a rasengan and throw him to the deva path... SO what is he had clones out already they barely take a second to make... Now naruto has chakra hands which is the same as clone hands that helps him make the new rasengan. He's fine the way he is... We can always agree to disagree on this...
     
         

  19. #59
    Senior Member Modaro's Avatar
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Quote Originally Posted by -The Agent- View Post
    Obviously Minato's style of attack is different from Naruto's style. The pain fight is a perfect example because he didn't have the speed that his father had...so he uses clones to help him. 5 second interval and his clones help him make a rasengan and throw him to the deva path... SO what is he had clones out already they barely take a second to make... Now naruto has chakra hands which is the same as clone hands that helps him make the new rasengan. He's fine the way he is... We can always agree to disagree on this...
    I still stand by my point with speed

    Yes Naruto now has more hand but it is still him who is controlling the the cakra himself, he is still proforming the rasengan alone with out clones. How all of a sudden he gained the skill to do that. 3yrs + of the same tacktics and he suddenly gets the hang of it in 1 sec or how ever long it taks to make those chakra arms?
     
         

  20. #60
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    Re: Rasengan Contradiction |Clones|

    Well we haven't seen sasuke develop kirin, he just used it. Oh and he suddenly knew how to use his MS techniques right after he awakened it so there you have it's just Kisi's way of doing things.
     
         
    Last edited by -Hades-; 12-15-2010 at 01:01 PM.

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