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  1. #26
    Member uzumakiclanrules's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Kabuto is a sly biotch...he knows what he's up against and he knows all about the sharingan...he mustve kept some things from Madara...

    BUT most likely Madara intended to copy Edo Tensei, which is why he wanted to know what its risks were...Im sure after hearing that the technique carries 0 risks, he'll probably try to summon (if Kabuto already has foolishly divulged all the important deets in the last chapter that is...) Oro, by taking some of kabuto's DNA so as to stop Kabuto from betraying him later(Im pretty sure Kabuto will)...

    OR he could also try to summon his own brother AND the WHOLE UCHIHA(minus Itachi and Shisui...did I miss anyone else? hope not) clan coz. he already has their eyes...come to think of it, SOSP might be revived(that's SoSP's Rinnegan Madara's flaunting as we all know)...the possibilities are endless ( and frightening -__-' ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    As for the blood needed, I guess Madara/sasuke's blood should suffice as they're all from the same clan...Sasuke probably wont survive the mass blood donation drive though...dunno about Madara...dunno if he even HAS blood in him...how he survived a century and managed to stay tall and "young" should be a mystery to Kishi himself...
     
         
    Last edited by uzumakiclanrules; 12-13-2010 at 04:08 AM.

  2. #27
    Member Sanin Hokage's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    I think Madara just wanted to know what he is up against. He would be sure that Kabuto has not revealed everything so even IF he has copied the jutsu he won;t use it. The other possibility is that he wants to make something even better than Edo Tensai
     
         

  3. #28
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Interesting ideas, but sharingan can't copy jutsu's the way your implying.

    Sharingan can copy jutsu's as a side affect of their ability to see high speed movement such hand seals etc...You still need the requirements like chakra affainity, body conditioning etc...

    But edo tensei is a summoning so there's nothing to copy and not only that but kabuto uses a scroll and there's a ritual that needs to take place. Anyone can copy a ritual as along as you know what needs to be done, also madara would need to his hands on that scroll.

    Sharingan has really nothing do to with this but in my opinion Madara does know more about this jutsu than hes letting off and he's seeing what Kabuto is up too, to see if Kabuto is loyal.

    Given Madara's history with the senju surely he would know more than most about this jutsu. The only thing I can think off that would not make him knowledgeable in this jutsu is he didn't fight the 2nd hokage in his lifetime or the 2nd hokage didn't create the jutsu during madara and haramshima's reign.

    There's also another possibility when Konoha was formed the senju and uchiha could have shared information. But maybe madara didn't stick around long enough.
     
         

  4. #29
    Member uzumakiclanrules's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    Interesting ideas, but sharingan can't copy jutsu's the way your implying.

    Sharingan can copy jutsu's as a side affect of their ability to see high speed movement such hand seals etc...You still need the requirements like chakra affainity, body conditioning etc...
    Ummm...i think you might be a little bit mistaken about the sharingan...dunno if Kakashi's an exception but he seems to have copied DOTON, SUITON, KATON jutsus using sharingan...so unless he has chakra affinity for 4 ELEMENTS out of 5 (which is unlikely given the fact that Yamato/kakashi mentions that jonins with 3 elemental affinities are rare) this factor has to be ruled out...hes not shown an wind-style jutsus yet, but that may just be because wind-style users are hard to come by and the one he's met do no use hand seals for their wind-style jutus( Asuma[deceased] and Naruto)...

    what Kakashi said was he could not copy KG moves even if he read through the hand signs, coz. combing different elemental chakra is out of any NORMAL(without the KG) shinobi's scope...

    This shows that chakra affinity is NOT a factor...even body conditioning for that matter as he uses hand seals almost as fast as the user himself( kakashi vs Zabuza)
     
         
    Last edited by uzumakiclanrules; 12-13-2010 at 09:26 AM.

  5. #30
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by uzumakiclanrules View Post
    Ummm...i think you might be a little bit mistaken about the sharingan...dunno if Kakashi's an exception but he seems to have copied DOTON, SUITON, KATON jutsus using sharingan...so unless he has chakra affinity for 4 ELEMENTS out of 5 (which is unlikely given the fact that Yamato/kakashi mentions that jonins with 3 elemental affinities are rare) this factor has to be ruled out...hes not shown an wind-style jutsus yet, but that may just be because wind-style users are hard to come by and the one he's met do no use hand seals for their wind-style jutus( Asuma[deceased] and Naruto)...

    what Kakashi said was he could not copy KS moves even if he read through the hand signs, coz. combing different elemental chakra is out of any NORMAL(without the KG) shinobi's scope...

    This shows that chakra affinity is NOT a factor...even body conditioning for that matter as he uses hand seals almost as fast as the user himself( kakashi vs Zabuza)
    You don't need affintites to use all the elemental jutsus, its just that some jutsu require you to have an affinity to that element like chadori(lightning) wind rasengan(wind).

    Kahashi goes into this during the kakuzu fight if you want to look into in more.

    And body condintion is an important factor like the frontal lotus, sasuke even though copied the movements with this sharingan he needed to train for a month to get his body up to strach to use the technique. Kahashi also goes into this in part 1 sasuke vs garra.
     
         

  6. #31
    Wisdom and Courage Honord Sage's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    true but remember sasuke set them free from the southern prison and jugo killed the rest in the northern one. who knows where the survivors are
    Some died on Kabuto experimental table, others in the battle field from Kabuto's and Orochimaru drugs in both Manga and fillers.
     
         

  7. #32
    Member uzumakiclanrules's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    You don't need affintites to use all the elemental jutsus, its just that some jutsu require you to have an affinity to that element like chadori(lightning) wind rasengan(wind).

    Kahashi goes into this during the kakuzu fight if you want to look into in more.
    ^ not sure about this...if what you say is true, in that case, just by copy and practicing hand seals for different elemental jutsus you could probably master all possible elemental jutsus...in such a situation the concept "ELEMENTAL AFFINITY" would have no meaning as such...Im really not sure that its the case and nothing of the sort has been mentioned in Kakuzu fight as well, at least I didnt come across anything of the sort...


    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    And body condintion is an important factor like the frontal lotus, sasuke even though copied the movements with this sharingan he needed to train for a month to get his body up to strach to use the technique. Kahashi also goes into this in part 1 sasuke vs garra.
    I thought we were only talking about ninjutsu here...frontal lotus is taijutstu so there has to some sort of training to pack some power into the technique...I was referring solely to ninjutsus in my post...
     
         
    Last edited by uzumakiclanrules; 12-13-2010 at 10:03 AM.

  8. #33
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by uzumakiclanrules View Post
    ^ not sure about this...if what you say is true, in that case, just by copy and practicing hand seals for different elemental jutsus you could probably master all possible elemental jutsus...in such a situation the concept "ELEMENTAL AFFINITY" would have no meaning as such...Im really not sure that its the case and nothing of the sort has been mentioned in Kakuzu fight as well, at least I didnt come across anything of the sort...




    I thought we were only talking about ninjutsu here...frontal lotus is taijutstu so there has to some sort of training to pack some power into the technique...I was referring solely to ninjutsus in my post...
    Dude only the rinnegan gives all 6 affinities and therefore able to do all techniques the sharingan works completely different. Like I said either read or watch the kahashi/kakuzu fight if you doubt what I'm saying.

    All I'm saying which I thought was common knowledge by now, just becuase you see how something is done with a sharingan doesn't mean you can automatically can do it, some you can and some you can't. It all depends on the technique, some techniques require more than others.

    Like chadori you need an affinity for lightning, things like copying a rasengan and frontal lotus you need to condition your body in the rasengan's case knowing how do it isn't enough you need to well condition your chakra control. Also you need large chakra reserves to use the rasengan often like Naruto which is the main reason why kahahi doesn't use the rasengan even though he can do it.

    The sharingan won't give you that but it will tell whats happening with the technique and will help you decide what training you need to do. With the frontal lotus I was saying even though sasuke copied lee's movements with the sharingan he still needed to condition his body to move at lee's high speeds. The sharingan doesn't make you physically faster.

    (Note: Although it gives better reaction times as you see high speed movement in slow mo, but this different from being fast like minato for example)
     
         
    Last edited by psukkar; 12-13-2010 at 11:15 AM.

  9. #34
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    Interesting ideas, but sharingan can't copy jutsu's the way your implying.

    Sharingan can copy jutsu's as a side affect of their ability to see high speed movement such hand seals etc...You still need the requirements like chakra affainity, body conditioning etc...

    But edo tensei is a summoning so there's nothing to copy and not only that but kabuto uses a scroll and there's a ritual that needs to take place. Anyone can copy a ritual as along as you know what needs to be done, also madara would need to his hands on that scroll.

    Sharingan has really nothing do to with this but in my opinion Madara does know more about this jutsu than hes letting off and he's seeing what Kabuto is up too, to see if Kabuto is loyal.

    Given Madara's history with the senju surely he would know more than most about this jutsu. The only thing I can think off that would not make him knowledgeable in this jutsu is he didn't fight the 2nd hokage in his lifetime or the 2nd hokage didn't create the jutsu during madara and haramshima's reign.

    There's also another possibility when Konoha was formed the senju and uchiha could have shared information. But maybe madara didn't stick around long enough.
    I agree 100%

    Tobi has indeed seen how edo tensei works, but without the summoning scroll, he cant perform the ritual.

    Also, you are right about the sharingan. It does not give the power to PERFORM any elemental jutsu, it allows the user to see how it works, and if they have affinity for the right element, it allows them to copy and use the tech.
     
         

  10. #35
    Master Artisan leafeater's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    Dude only the rinnegan gives all 6 affinities and therefore able to do all techniques the sharingan works completely different. Like I said either read or watch the kahashi/kakuzu fight if you doubt what I'm saying.

    All I'm saying which I thought was common knowledge by now, just becuase you see how something is done with a sharingan doesn't mean you can automatically can do it, some you can and some you can't. It all depends on the technique, some techniques require more than others.

    Like chadori you need an affinity for lightning, things like copying a rasengan and frontal lotus you need to condition your body in the rasengan's case knowing how do it isn't enough you need to well condition your chakra control. Also you need large chakra reserves to use the rasengan often like Naruto which is the main reason why kahahi doesn't use the rasengan even though he can do it.

    The sharingan won't give you that but it will tell whats happening with the technique and will help you decide what training you need to do. With the frontal lotus I was saying even though sasuke copied lee's movements with the sharingan he still needed to condition his body to move at lee's high speeds. The sharingan doesn't make you physically faster.

    (Note: Although it gives better reaction times as you see high speed movement in slow mo, but this different from being fast like minato for example)
    Basically, and I believe that Kakashi states to Guy that he and Sasuke spent the majority of the training getting Sasuke into physical condition after using his Sharingan to envision Lee's fighting style.

    Yeah, the Sharingan tracks up to a certain speed, but I bet it fails against RKS mode or some number of gates, say 7, being opened.

    What you said about the Rasengan requiring large chakra reserves is incorrect though. In fact, Jiraiya states that it is much more efficient than a jutsu like Chidori. Kakashi can make say 6 (I'm ball parking) Raikiri's/Chidori's, but he ought to be be able to make way more Rasengans. The Rasengan is more efficient and relies more on chakra control and manipulation than reserves, and the reason Kakashi invented Chidori was because he was unable to add his lightning elemental affinity to the Rasengan.
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    true but remember sasuke set them free from the southern prison and jugo killed the rest in the northern one. who knows where the survivors are
    I am taking about the ones that died in battle, betrayed by Kabuto, they could be used by Madara against Kabuto like the bone guy and the guys from the 33 tail beast arc.
     
         

  12. #37
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Basically, and I believe that Kakashi states to Guy that he and Sasuke spent the majority of the training getting Sasuke into physical condition after using his Sharingan to envision Lee's fighting style.

    Yeah, the Sharingan tracks up to a certain speed, but I bet it fails against RKS mode or some number of gates, say 7, being opened.

    What you said about the Rasengan requiring large chakra reserves is incorrect though. In fact, Jiraiya states that it is much more efficient than a jutsu like Chidori. Kakashi can make say 6 (I'm ball parking) Raikiri's/Chidori's, but he ought to be be able to make way more Rasengans. The Rasengan is more efficient and relies more on chakra control and manipulation than reserves, and the reason Kakashi invented Chidori was because he was unable to add his lightning elemental affinity to the Rasengan.
    I'm pretty sure jiraiiya said the rasengan takes advantage of someone with large chakra reserves. Also since minato could have got idea from a tailed beast bomb, it's not that surprising is it?
     
         

  13. #38
    The White Snake Orochimaru the Snake's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honord Sage View Post
    I am taking about the ones that died in battle, betrayed by Kabuto, they could be used by Madara against Kabuto like the bone guy and the guys from the 3 tailed beast arc.
    the bone guy Kimmimaro was brought back by Kabuto and would be loyal to him with out mind control

    the 3 tailed beast arc is filler and not cannon

    only 5 filler charecters have gotten cannon status i doubt any more will
     
         

  14. #39
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    kabuto is smarter than this

    he obviously has something up his sleeves. He doesn't mind madara learning his jutsu. He probably has a way to stop it or something else. Kabuto never makes a step w/o thinking ahead. I have seen kabuto make better choices throughout the manga than orochimaru.
     
         

  15. #40
    to be love, to be love Realtwisted's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Quote Originally Posted by silenceofthelambs View Post
    In this latest chapter (520), we've seen the partnership between Madara Uchiha and Kabuto Yakushi begin to disintegrate. Both begin questioning each other's motives, and remain wary of each other as if an Akatsuki infight between them is to take place, at any moment. Kabuto realizes he has yet to gain Madara's trust, and asks him what it is he is after. Madara replies that it is a complete breakdown of Edo Tensei he wants, including, of course, a method in which the technique may be stopped.

    Kabuto complies, knowing against Madara's new powers he has not a chance, and gives Madara a live performance of his most unique ability. Now, it's not certain whether Kabuto is aware, but the Sharingan can freely memorize any technique the user of the doujutsu comes across, being able to use it as their own and modify it as they wish. At some point, my opinion is that Madara is going to betray Kabuto; but Kabuto most likely has accounted for this, and his sixth unseen summon grants him immunity from any attempts on Madara's part.

    Madara, however, remains one step ahead. When Kabuto tries to defend himself with the mysterious individual within the sixth coffin, Madara will reveal that he too knows how to use Edo Tensei, and that the only reason he inquired about the technique was to copy it and himself control the unknown person who once visibly disturbed him. This is all the more accentuated by the fact that Madara says an ally today becomes an enemy tomorrow. Madara may have plans to further improve Edo Tensei, specifically asking for its weaknesses because he wants to ensure the Shinobi Alliance finds no way to defeat the jutsu on the battlefield. Madara carefully observed Kabuto during every single step of the technique, particularly the ritual, and I think this is a hint that will unveil itself later in the manga. This "alliance" cannot last, and eventually one is going to fall to the other's hand. We will see who it will be.
    Not only he has Sharingan he has Rinnegan to copy edo tensi.
     
         

  16. #41
    Lost Artist veggetta13's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    Hey,I think that scroll might be one of the items stolen by Oro from the 3rd's library
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    [QUOTE=uzumakiclanrules;2556042]Ummm...i think you might be a little bit mistaken about the sharingan...dunno if Kakashi's an exception but he seems to have copied DOTON, SUITON, KATON jutsus using sharingan...so unless he has chakra affinity for 4 ELEMENTS out of 5 (which is unlikely given the fact that Yamato/kakashi mentions that jonins with 3 elemental affinities are rare) this factor has to be ruled out...hes not shown an wind-style jutsus yet, but that may just be because wind-style users are hard to come by and the one he's met do no use hand seals for their wind-style jutus( Asuma[deceased] and Naruto)...

    kakashi has used wind style during naruto's rasenshuriken jutsu traning remember his hand got burned.
     
         

  18. #43
    Academy Student Es0Ter1c Mast3r's Avatar
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    Re: Has Madara copied Edo Tensei with his Sharingan?

    This is very possible, but I would "Like" to think that kabuto would know of that before hand. He has dealt with the sharingan for so long know, how would he not know? I'm sure he left out some details that would be needed to make it work. Pulled a miracle in front of Madara so to say, just to gain some trust.

    When it's all said and done, there will have to be yet another villain for the story to take place, and that's after madara dies. I would assume that kabuto is that person, since he is so dangerous now and without question, powerful..He isn't going to fall here, at least I don't think he will...
     
         

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