The argument, is shinra tensei 360 degrees or not? Proof it isn't and kiri is fine.

[~Hasashi~]

Ok, lets start with assuming that the theory shinra tensei(large) is 360 has absolutely no flaws.

Rag and scarface prove this using proof from the manga, saying that you see the attack expand across konoha in a 360 degree angle.


However, utilizing the same evidence I can derive another theory. You can say that deva path shoots down a highly compressed ball of energy/mass into the ground which then pushes in creating an impact creator, resulting in a huge shockwave which destroys konoha.


http://www.narutobase.net/forums/pic...ictureid=66681

Now if we were in a court of law, this case would have to be thrown away until either party can prove their theory is correct. Rag didn't. With the following I will. Not only that I will prove their theory to be wrong.


I'll start by disproving their theory than proving mine.

The following are multiple things wrong with their theory:

1. Why did deva path rise up into the air? We all agree that shinra tensei is a push, as stated in the manga. If it pushed out everything from the center of his body then there is no reason for him to go into the air. He just releases the huge shinra tensei from all over his body and everything around him is pushed away. There is no logical explanation for him going up into the air as high as he did.


2. In this picture the animators show an orb around deva path, this doesn't appear in the manga however you can assume this is to bring out a better image of a 360 degree shinra tensei(naruto wiki: " In the anime, Shinra Tensei is also shown to be used as a protective orb instead of pushing attacks away which is shown in different colors each time its used. http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...in_the_orb.png ). Why didn't this appear when he used it on a large scale? It says that every time a 360 degree shinra tensei was used it showed an orb, why not here? Furthermore, if deva path rose up so high was was the epic center of the shockwave so small? Imagine that orb expanded 100 feet(give or take) in each direction slamming down on konoha. The initial damage would be much larger than this small hole. As a 360 degree shinra tensei expands from the users body, by the time it'd get to konoha it would be huge. Sush a small epic center wouldn't make sense.


http://www.narutobase.net/forums/pic...ictureid=66681

My theory supports this, the blast would slam into the ground and cause a shockwave to spread out from where it hit. That is why the epic center is so small.



Facts that prove my theory to be right:

Via NarutoWiki, the proccess of a large scale Shinra Tensei is that ''A massive gravity well is created above the target, crushing everything beneath in a titanic explosion'' indicating that it works almost as if a large pillar of gravity falls onto a singular spot, or a singularity - in this case, ground zero. A gravity well ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_well ) is created, by example, of the gravitational effect of an extremely heavy/dense object.
Therefore, it could be said that Shinra Tensei on this scale functions by creating an area of incredibly dense energy/mass (likely, of chakra), and then thrusting it down into Konoha (again, this explains the initial impact). Since Shinra Tensei is translated as "Almight Push", and via the effects of the jutsu, it is clear that the gravational effect is outward rather than inward, which further
explains the growth of the shockwave. The impact crator is created by the initial impact of the superdense mass, and then the resulting "explosion/shockwave" that we see is the effects of the gravity well - the gravity is moving outward, away from the mass.



Now, if you're going to say that every shinra tensei used is 360 that I can prove wrong with clear manga proof.

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/438/6

In the top panel you see pein using, what seems to be, a medium scale shinra tensei and hinata, who is right behind him, isn't moving.

And if you want to say a large scale is to strong to direct, then I'll counter with Nagato even had to break the connection with the other paths to CONTROL this one, meaning it should be the same as the others, which can be directed.


So, to sum it up, after all the proof brought to prove my theory is correct and their theory is wrong. You the people of NB now vote, who's theory is correct?


P.s. This thread is NOT for spam or arguments, simply state who in your opinion is right. If you are going to be biased don't vote please.

P.p.s. No hard feelings intended

P.p.p.s. Thank you keotsu for helping me put it all together, and scary for helping me find some of the proof I needed.



Now, to finish up, I can only say one quote from my favorite show, LAWYERED!!!!

[Kirabi]

Hasashi you are a idiot if the Shinra Tensei wasn't 360 degrees one Konoha wouldn't have had a crater where it once was. only something that resembles a orb could do something like that.

Just face facts, you destroyed you village like a idiot.

Even when doing Shinra Tensei on Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2. He creates a orb around himself.

this is the Shinra Tenshi you used, and from the simple fact you weren't in the air I believe you possibly killed off your bio too. that much power backfiring on you would crush you.

but neways.. stop this pointless argument its a 360 degree attack if it wasnt everything behind God Realm wouldn't have been destroyed. simple as that.

[Ragnaroc]

FOR THE LAST TIME!

Shinra Tensei is a 360 degree attack, and Nexus agrees that Kiri is destroyed so stop crying like a whiny baby and get over it!

[Queran Uchiha]

i believe it is a 360 attack. because when he destroyed the entire leaf village he was in the center of the village and blew away everything that was 360 degrees around him. also he can aim that attack aswell

[Kirabi]

Then on top of that he had to break his connections with all the other Peins because the amount of Chakra he was going to use wouldnt be enough if he continued to send chakra to all the other bodies.

[~Hasashi~]

Hasashi you are a idiot if the Shinra Tensei wasn't 360 degrees one Konoha wouldn't have had a crater where it once was. only something that resembles a orb could do something like that.

Just face facts, you destroyed you village like a idiot.

Even when doing Shinra Tensei on Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2. He creates a orb around himself.

this is the Shinra Tenshi you used, and from the simple fact you weren't in the air I believe you possibly killed off your bio too. that much power backfiring on you would crush you.

but neways.. stop this pointless argument its a 360 degree attack if it wasnt everything behind God Realm wouldn't have been destroyed. simple as that.

Did you not read the part about impact creators? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_crater

The only thing that holds your statement up is that to create a creator like that you need a ball, impact creators prove you wrong. Idiot.


@rag: THEN ****ING PROVE IT!!! You haven't done that PERIOD!!!


As I said though, this isn't for arguments, if you wanna argue VM me and I will prove you wrong, again.

[Queran Uchiha]

Hasashi you are a idiot if the Shinra Tensei wasn't 360 degrees one Konoha wouldn't have had a crater where it once was. only something that resembles a orb could do something like that.

Just face facts, you destroyed you village like a idiot.

Even when doing Shinra Tensei on Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2. He creates a orb around himself.

this is the Shinra Tenshi you used, and from the simple fact you weren't in the air I believe you possibly killed off your bio too. that much power backfiring on you would crush you.

but neways.. stop this pointless argument its a 360 degree attack if it wasnt everything behind God Realm wouldn't have been destroyed. simple as that.

^^^ totally agree that picture you brought up says it all. hes in the middle of the village and everything 360 degrees is blown away.

[SageBase]

Really? An argument on a fictional Naruto character Jutsu? Not everything has to make sense you know. Sometimes you just go with the flow.

[Gatsndshanks]

imo i think he went into the air for dramatic purposes more than anything. About the hinata thing, you have a valid point ~_~ which i myself cant think of a reason for

[Ragnaroc]

Did you not read the part about impact creators? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_crater

The only thing that holds your statement up is that to create a creator like that you need a ball, impact creators prove you wrong. Idiot.


@rag: THEN ****ING PROVE IT!!! You haven't done that PERIOD!!!


As I said though, this isn't for arguments, if you wanna argue VM me and I will prove you wrong, again.

I have..i've shown you video after video of Pein using Shinra tensei and you just have ignored it so get over it.

YOU destroyed Kiri!

[BigTDogg220]

It doesn't really matter. I think it's a 360 degree attack, but who knows...maybe the resurrected Nagato will have use it and they'll take a chapter to explain it, like Edo Tensei (doubt it though).

[Vìncent]

ok.. hasashi..
1. chill the hell out.. this is a fictional rp.. there is no need to get so worked up..
2. think about it logically, shinra tensei manipulates GRAVITY using the user as the centre of effect... gravity acts in a perfect circle ( that means 360 degrees) so unless you want to break the fundimental rules of gravity, shinra tensei must also act in a perfect circle from the user, therefore, it is 360 degree attack..

[Kirabi]

Did you not read the part about impact creators? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_crater

The only thing that holds your statement up is that to create a creator like that you need a ball, impact creators prove you wrong. Idiot.


@rag: THEN ****ING PROVE IT!!! You haven't done that PERIOD!!!


As I said though, this isn't for arguments, if you wanna argue VM me and I will prove you wrong, again.

lol. take a look at the picture again.

IF you notice there another circular indention in the middle where the initial Shinra Tensei was, the rest is a Shockwave. the attack is 360 degrees simple as that.. stop being a big baby about we all make mistakes. lol you always get on me about mine and how noobish I am well sir. least I don't destroy my whole village in one move. you should be the one-move pwn sage.

[Bardinho]

well guys i think it is 100% 360 degrees you can see that after all the naruto clones attaked pain right before naruto finished him whit rasengan

[Queran Uchiha]

ok.. hasashi..
1. chill the hell out.. this is a fictional rp.. there is no need to get so worked up..
2. think about it logically, shinra tensei manipulates GRAVITY using the user as the centre of effect... gravity acts in a perfect circle ( that means 360 degrees) so unless you want to break the fundimental rules of gravity, shinra tensei must also act in a perfect circle from the user, therefore, it is 360 degree attack..

hahahaha this is funny as shit but your right though

[Nagato..]

Here we go again...

To set the record straight once again...

1. We all seen that Hasashi said he used "Ultimate Shinra Tensei" (Large Scale) so lets have "Large scale in mind when we think whether its 360 or not.....

2. In every clip of the video the times Pein did not speak "Shinra tensei" they were small scaled attacks and could be directed whether 360 or not...

3. We can only make judgement based on the fact "Large Scale" has been used only once, and weve all seen the aftermath and the fact that Pein spoke "Shinra Tensei"




and not take a look at this picture of where the epicenter of the shinra tensei took place.. You can see that its slanted on the sides, but even though it gets flat it still rises up in a circular shape.

If you filled a balloon with air and put it inside a sand box..




Whether or not you directed it, Rag said up there that Nexus has already said he believes its 360 but also take this into account...

Kakashi was on the mountains when he arrived.. A Large scale shinra tensei wouldve been too close to not leave Kiri destroyed compared to the size of Konoha and what a large scale did..

[Typhon]

I think these pictures cause a problem with your theory.

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/429/6
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/429/10

Its difficult to see, and impossible to know for sure, but it certainly seems to me that Pain has his hands up in the same position in the second picture as the first. Each time we've seen him direct the blast of Shinra Tensei he's extended his hands in that direction. And these were always when it was used on the small scale. Its logical to assume that as the power of the attack increases, it becomes more difficult to control. Due to the size and power behind the Shinra Tensei he used to destroy Konoha, I believe it would have been impossible for him to direct and control it, thus he used it as a 360 degree blast. Him extending his limbs outwards (arms up, legs down) suggests this.


1.) I think its a couple of reasons. First, if he had tried to use it on the ground he could have been stopped. As shown, it took him a while to gather the chakra necessary to preform the technique. Had he tried to use it where he was (in front of Tsunade) it would have left him wide open. Second, its just much more dramatic and entertaining. The image of his rising up in the air over Konoha to cast judgement down onto everyone is much more symbolic of a God than him doing it from land.


2.) Any evidence from the anime should be cast aside IMO. But if we count the pictures shown, it still supports a 360 degree attack. The first image you linked could just show the initial impact of the tip of the sphere. Or it could just be a poorly drawn version. Impossible to tell.


Though in the end Nexus has already decided, and he ruled that it is 360 degrees. So this is sort of pointless.

[~Hasashi~]

Jesus christ, it's like you people have an inability to actually read and understand.


@Kirabi: God, you seriously refuse to tread. "impact craters typically have raised rims and floors that are lower in elevation than the surrounding terrain[2]. Impact craters range from small, simple, bowl-shaped depressions to large, complex, multi-ringed impact basins. Meteor Crater is perhaps the best-known example of a small impact crater on the Earth."

That explains why the aren't equally leveled.

@Rag: No, I did. Using the same proof you did I proved my own theory, so your facts don't prove jack shit.


@minato: Other shinra tensei were shown to be non 360 degrees, I showed that in the manga link I gave.


@Nagato: I showed in the manga an instance where he uses shinra tensei and it WASN'T 360 degrees, once again you ignored it.

And as I showed kirabi with impact creators, "impact craters typically have raised rims and floors that are lower in elevation than the surrounding terrain[2]. Impact craters range from small, simple, bowl-shaped depressions to large, complex, multi-ringed impact basins. Meteor Crater is perhaps the best-known example of a small impact crater on the Earth." the fact that the creator was unleveled proves NOTHING!!

If you people actually read through my post, and understood it, we could have saved 10 unnecessary posts in this thread.

[Scarface]

IN B4 LOCK! lol

[~Hasashi~]

I think these pictures cause a problem with your theory.

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/429/6
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/429/10

Its difficult to see, and impossible to know for sure, but it certainly seems to me that Pain has his hands up in the same position in the second picture as the first. Each time we've seen him direct the blast of Shinra Tensei he's extended his hands in that direction. And these were always when it was used on the small scale. Its logical to assume that as the power of the attack increases, it becomes more difficult to control. Due to the size and power behind the Shinra Tensei he used to destroy Konoha, I believe it would have been impossible for him to direct and control it, thus he used it as a 360 degree blast. Him extending his limbs outwards (arms up, legs down) suggests this.


1.) I think its a couple of reasons. First, if he had tried to use it on the ground he could have been stopped. As shown, it took him a while to gather the chakra necessary to preform the technique. Had he tried to use it where he was (in front of Tsunade) it would have left him wide open. Second, its just much more dramatic and entertaining. The image of his rising up in the air over Konoha to cast judgement down onto everyone is much more symbolic of a God than him doing it from land.


2.) Any evidence from the anime should be cast aside IMO. But if we count the pictures shown, it still supports a 360 degree attack. The first image you linked could just show the initial impact of the tip of the sphere. Or it could just be a poorly drawn version. Impossible to tell.


Though in the end Nexus has already decided, and he ruled that it is 360 degrees. So this is sort of pointless.

Yes, if you noticed he had to disconnect his connection with the other paths in order to CONTROL it. I said that.


The sphere would have been HUGE by the time it got to konoha's ground, the epic center of the sphere would have been much larger had it been the sphere's initial contact with the ground.


Yes, and when was the last time nexus RPed? Can anyone tell me? No, because it was long before any of you joined, hell I don't even remember it.

[Nagato..]

Jesus christ, it's like you people have an inability to actually read and understand.


@Kirabi: God, you seriously refuse to tread. "impact craters typically have raised rims and floors that are lower in elevation than the surrounding terrain[2]. Impact craters range from small, simple, bowl-shaped depressions to large, complex, multi-ringed impact basins. Meteor Crater is perhaps the best-known example of a small impact crater on the Earth."

That explains why the aren't equally leveled.

@Rag: No, I did. Using the same proof you did I proved my own theory, so your facts don't prove jack shit.


@minato: Other shinra tensei were shown to be non 360 degrees, I showed that in the manga link I gave.


@Nagato: I showed in the manga an instance where he uses shinra tensei and it WASN'T 360 degrees, once again you ignored it.

And as I showed kirabi with impact creators, "impact craters typically have raised rims and floors that are lower in elevation than the surrounding terrain[2]. Impact craters range from small, simple, bowl-shaped depressions to large, complex, multi-ringed impact basins. Meteor Crater is perhaps the best-known example of a small impact crater on the Earth." the fact that the creator was unleveled proves NOTHING!!

If you people actually read through my post, and understood it, we could have saved 10 unnecessary posts in this thread.

Well Nexus has already said it was 360 and I believe it to so, Im good.

But I already agreed with you as far as small scale is concerned.. Your whole argument is based on small scale Hasashi.

Impact of what? A 180 degree attack? Or the impact of a 360? Im going with the impact crater of a 36o degree attack.

With that said Im kinda done, its pointless if Nexus has declared it already and we keep arguing about it.

[Typhon]

Yes, if you noticed he had to disconnect his connection with the other paths in order to CONTROL it. I said that.


The sphere would have been HUGE by the time it got to konoha's ground, the epic center of the sphere would have been much larger had it been the sphere's initial contact with the ground.


Yes, and when was the last time nexus RPed? Can anyone tell me? No, because it was long before any of you joined, hell I don't even remember it.

1.) He had to disconnect with the other Paths because he needed all of the chakra he could gather, not for control.

2.) Depending on how far the sphere has traveled the initial impact shown could be various sizes. Regardless of the size of the sphere there should still be a single point as small as a needle which hits first.

3.) Activity in our RP in now way relates to knowledge of the manga.

[Mugiwara]

In most instances Shinra tensei is used, its been 360 degree, we've seen some smaller scale shinra tensei where its only half a circle, but the one Large scale shinra tensei we've seen, has been 360 degree.

Now lets assume that you can control if its 360 degree or not, you'd have to describe how you use it.
If there is not enough description, that means that its the default way of using it, the way that has been shown the most times in the anime and manga, which is 360 degree.

So even if you could control it, you lacked description in your move, and didn't specify how you use it, therefore you used it 360 degree, the default way.

[Kansas Bred]

Wow, people are still arguing about this?

I'm not in this, But what I want to know is how the other jutsu Nagato uses to pull objects inward ( The Exact Opposite ) isn't 360 as well, If the rin'negan is supposed to be able to do anything I'm sure it could change the laws of gravity. (: Just saying.

[Typhon]

Wow, people are still arguing about this?

I'm not in this, But what I want to know is how the other jutsu Nagato uses to pull objects inward ( The Exact Opposite ) isn't 360 as well, If the rin'negan is supposed to be able to do anything I'm sure it could change the laws of gravity. (: Just saying.

Just like Sasuke can make a ball of fire, or a dragon of fire. They're two different techniques with two different names based on the same "element" (gravity in this case).