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  1. #26
    Migualon J.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    jiraya, there is no doubt about it

    btw nice sig and avatar oFuiinJutsuu
     
         

  2. #27
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    they are both very strong but i thin kisame would win by a lil bit
     
         

  3. #28
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by Migualon12 View Post
    jiraya, there is no doubt about it

    btw nice sig and avatar oFuiinJutsuu
    Thx bud ! :D
     
         

  4. #29
    Jounin Kakashi Fang's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    This is not fair as Draegod said, because Jiraiya is already in sage mode that would give him the advantage against almost anyone in Naruto.

    If your gonna start Jiraiya off in Sage Mode then you have to start Kisame off already merged with Samehada and in that giant water ball thing.

    But in the case of your scenario Jiraiya wins hands down.

    If they were to meet at their neutral power level however Kisame would rape J-Mans warted ass!
     
         

  5. #30
    Senior Member PositiveEmotions's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    jiraiya
     
         

  6. #31
    Academy Student LeD's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Jiraiya not being able to summon is kind of ridiculous, but it won't stop him. He almost killed Kisame once in one move, the toad's eso****us. Either way, Samehada is useless since it can't absorb nature chakra, nor the ninjutsu Jiraiya casts since they incorporate it. This neutralizes Kisame worse than no summons worsen Jiraiya (In a loophole, he could ask Ma or Pa to summon, lol).

    Advantage to Jiraiya in: experience, genjutsu (frog song), taijutsu (sage mode), ninjutsu (sage mode w/ fire, air, earth, and water + combination jutsu), and stamina/endurance (sage mode) since Kisame can't get free refills from Samehada.

    This is a very bad matchup for Kisame, strong or not, because of sage mode with nature chakra and the ineffectiveness of Samehada. The argument that Kisame beat Killer Bee and thus should beat Jiraiya is bogus, transitive inference fails all the time here, which is why it shouldn't be used, albeit mentioning techniques in the fight are valid. Knowing the secrets about sage mode aren't going to help Kisame either. It's just a bad matchup.


    Could not have put it any better myself!! Great way to break it down man! J-man no doubt, I understand why people would think that Kisame could posibly pull it off since he is a renowned swordsman and also has an enormous amount of chakra himself, but let me just say this... Guy got the better of him, and I'm sure most of us would agree that J-man is much stronger than Guy. I know it's really not a fair comparison since Kisame was retreating, however Guy was able to gain an advantage on Kisame around water... Match AND point lol
     
         
    Last edited by LeD; 03-05-2011 at 12:31 AM.

  7. #32
    Jounin Kakashi Fang's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by LeD View Post
    Could not have put it any better myself!! Great way to break it down man! J-man no doubt, I understand why people would think that Kisame could posibly pull it off since he is a renowned swordsman and also has an enormous amount of chakra himself, but let me just say this... Guy got the better of him, and I'm sure most of us would agree that J-man is much stronger than Guy. I know it's really not a fair comparison since Kisame was retreating, however Guy was able to gain an advantage on Kisame around water... Match AND point lol
    Yes but Guy was also able to catch Jiraiya off guard thinking he was the enemy on multiple occassions and kick him in the face with Dynamic Entry.
    Jutsu wise jiraiya is better than guy and so are most ninja even konoharmaru but his other skills surpass almost everyones in the village.
     
         

  8. #33
    Revolutionary Sabo Algalon's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    still there is no way kisame would beat jiraiya he is strong but jiraiya is something else
     
         

  9. #34
    Half Demon illidanson's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Okay you're of overestimating Jiraya
    i admit that jiraya is better than Kisame in experience, genjutsu, stamina.
    but in taijustu i would say that Kisame has a slight advantage and in Ninjutsu Kisame is way better than Jiraya
    And even though that it still seems like Jiraya is the strongest, but i just can't imagine how Jiraya is going to kill Kisame. With what Justu?
    Goemon would be neutralized against Exploding Water Colliding Wave
    And he may not be fast enough to avoid Hair Needle Barrage but couldn't he just block with his sword
    I don't rly understand the natural energy thing but would he just could use his Great Shark Bullet Technique to absorb Super Great Ball Rasengan.
    And what whould Jiraya do against A Thousand Feeding Sharks and Shark Dance Technique?
     
         

  10. #35
    Senior Member PositiveEmotions's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by illidanson View Post
    Okay you're of overestimating Jiraya
    i admit that jiraya is better than Kisame in experience, genjutsu, stamina.
    but in taijustu i would say that Kisame has a slight advantage and in Ninjutsu Kisame is way better than Jiraya
    And even though that it still seems like Jiraya is the strongest, but i just can't imagine how Jiraya is going to kill Kisame. With what Justu?
    Goemon would be neutralized against Exploding Water Colliding Wave
    And he may not be fast enough to avoid Hair Needle Barrage but couldn't he just block with his sword
    I don't rly understand the natural energy thing but would he just could use his Great Shark Bullet Technique to absorb Super Great Ball Rasengan.
    And what whould Jiraya do against A Thousand Feeding Sharks and Shark Dance Technique?
    well gai sensai had to go to 8 gates to kill kisame and jiraiya had to go sm to beat 3 pains so my guess is jiraiya would win
     
         

  11. #36
    Jounin Kakashi Fang's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    From you saying that i dont know how you come to the conclusion of Jiraiya winning!
    Any devestating attack Jiraiya does on Kisame he could use samehada to heal even the most life threatening moves.
     
         

  12. #37
    Master Artisan leafeater's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakashi Fang View Post
    From you saying that i dont know how you come to the conclusion of Jiraiya winning!
    Any devestating attack Jiraiya does on Kisame he could use samehada to heal even the most life threatening moves.
    All of Jiraiya's techniques in sage mode incorporate nature chakra, thus samehada can't safely absorb them. Samehada is useless against a sage, which is why this is a bad matchup for Kisame.
     
         

  13. #38
    Jounin Kakashi Fang's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    All of Jiraiya's techniques in sage mode incorporate nature chakra, thus samehada can't safely absorb them. Samehada is useless against a sage, which is why this is a bad matchup for Kisame.
    Just because samehada cannot absorb his chakra does not make it useless.
    Samehada has massive amounts of chakra already stored in it from previous fights such as Naruto,Killer Bee, and Asuma.

    Samehada could still rip Jiraiya to shreds and block/absorb chakra based attacks.
     
         

  14. #39
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Jiraiya all the way not even itachi would attack him
     
         

  15. #40
    Revolutionary Sabo Algalon's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by fallinskaterdave View Post
    Jiraiya all the way not even itachi would attack him
    i disagree with you, yes jiraiya would win against kisame but itachi could take him
     
         

  16. #41
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by Minato The Fourth Hokage View Post
    i disagree with you, yes jiraiya would win against kisame but itachi could take him
    Jiraiya couldn't take either of them in my opinion.
     
         

  17. #42
    Master Artisan leafeater's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakashi Fang View Post
    Just because samehada cannot absorb his chakra does not make it useless.
    Samehada has massive amounts of chakra already stored in it from previous fights such as Naruto,Killer Bee, and Asuma.

    Samehada could still rip Jiraiya to shreds and block/absorb chakra based attacks.
    Sage mode is resistant to damage, and Samehada cannot absorb any of his senjutsu attacks without absorbing nature chakra and thus becoming stone. So, all it really grants is some base chakra and a sword, but it loses what makes it special. Sorry.
     
         

  18. #43
    Senior Member Mugetsu's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Jiraiya takes this one
     
         

  19. #44
    Jounin Kakashi Fang's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Sage mode is resistant to damage, and Samehada cannot absorb any of his senjutsu attacks without absorbing nature chakra and thus becoming stone. So, all it really grants is some base chakra and a sword, but it loses what makes it special. Sorry.
    Sorry but sage mode does not make Jiraiya resistant to damage because pain ripped off his arm and stabbed him six times in the back and blasted him into the ocean.Jiraiya is just very durable in sage mode he is not superman.

    Like i said Samehada still has chakra reserves that would outlast Sage mode and kisame himself has an enormous chakra level.If anybody is impervious to damage because when kisame get injured Samehada heals his wounds so the longer the fight goes on it sways into Kisame's favor.
     
         

  20. #45
    Master Artisan leafeater's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakashi Fang View Post
    Sorry but sage mode does not make Jiraiya resistant to damage because pain ripped off his arm and stabbed him six times in the back and blasted him into the ocean.Jiraiya is just very durable in sage mode he is not superman.

    Like i said Samehada still has chakra reserves that would outlast Sage mode and kisame himself has an enormous chakra level.If anybody is impervious to damage because when kisame get injured Samehada heals his wounds so the longer the fight goes on it sways into Kisame's favor.
    Resistant to damage and very durable are the same thing essentially. Sage mode offers infinite chakra and stamina, infinite is greater than whatever Kisame with Samehada has. The longer the fight, actually converges to infinity, thus favoring Jiraiya not Kisame, you have it backwards.
     
         

  21. #46
    Member oFuiinJutsuu's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Resistant to damage and very durable are the same thing essentially. Sage mode offers infinite chakra and stamina, infinite is greater than whatever Kisame with Samehada has. The longer the fight, actually converges to infinity, thus favoring Jiraiya not Kisame, you have it backwards.
    True, but the longer the fight goes on the more damage Jiraiya will suffer and nothing will change for Kisame since samehada would just heal him. Btw, Jiraiya dosen't start in Sage mode. Kisame rapes him hard.
     
         

  22. #47
    Revolutionary Sabo Algalon's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    1st of all high som1 with high chakra isnt always stronger than som1 with low chakra, and i dont think kisame has more chakra with samehada than jiraiya in sage mode

    2nd kisame would lose even if jiraiya didnt go into sage mode
     
         

  23. #48
    Half Demon illidanson's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by Minato The Fourth Hokage View Post
    1st of all high som1 with high chakra isnt always stronger than som1 with low chakra, and i dont think kisame has more chakra with samehada than jiraiya in sage mode

    2nd kisame would lose even if jiraiya didnt go into sage mode
    WHAT??? Jiraya without sage mode is like Itachi without MS.
    Without Sage Mode he can't use any of his strongest techniques and even those aren't as strong as kisames.
    Without Sage Mode, Kisame is stronger, faster, has more charkra and more stamina and can use much stronger jutsu.
    And besides if Jiraya can't summon he can't summon Shima and Fukasaku, and if i have understanded it right he can't enter Sage Mode without their help.
     
         

  24. #49
    Revolutionary Sabo Algalon's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by illidanson View Post
    WHAT??? Jiraya without sage mode is like Itachi without MS.
    Without Sage Mode he can't use any of his strongest techniques and even those aren't as strong as kisames.
    Without Sage Mode, Kisame is stronger, faster, has more charkra and more stamina and can use much stronger jutsu.
    And besides if Jiraya can't summon he can't summon Shima and Fukasaku, and if i have understanded it right he can't enter Sage Mode without their help.
    his rasengans alone are extremely powerful, and he has the toad stomach tech and much MUCH more

    and inn sage mode he has a lot stronger techs than kisame
     
         

  25. #50
    Master Artisan leafeater's Avatar
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    Re: Jiraiya vs Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by oFuiinJutsuu View Post
    True, but the longer the fight goes on the more damage Jiraiya will suffer and nothing will change for Kisame since samehada would just heal him. Btw, Jiraiya dosen't start in Sage mode. Kisame rapes him hard.
    No, Kisame needs to absorb his opponents chakra/stamina with Samehada in order to recover from wounds, he can't do that in this fight except for whatever initial chakra is in Samehada. Samehada will only heal himself in the beginning, after that, he has nothing but a regular sword.

    I apologize, but the facts are already out there, and they favor Jiraiya, there is nothing in this fight that favors Kisame. I'm not adding anything new to these recent posts, some people are simply ignoring the facts, albeit I don't know why. What makes Kisame special is that he can absorb chakra/stamina via Samehada and some jutsu, those are useless against sage mode Jiraiya as Kisame can't absorb any of his senjutsu. This is a bad matchup for Kisame because he loses what makes him special.

    The thread had Jiraiya starting in sage mode but not allowed to use summons, did you change the rules? If so, Jiraiya can summon, and he'll kill Kisame in one move like he almost did last time by summoning the toad esophogaus, which only Ameratsu got Itachi and Kisame out of; otherwise Kisame would've died and there'd be no discussion. So either sage mode Jiraiya wins, or regular Jiraiya can win.

    By the way, finishing your argument with "Kisame rapes him hard" is immature and pointless. Accept the facts and move on.
     
         
    Last edited by leafeater; 03-06-2011 at 01:22 PM. Reason: grammar, content.

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