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  1. #51
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    Re: Itachi's full power

    yea...lets stop saying full power......

    itachi wasnt going all out vs sasuke, or else sasuke would be dead as madara kindly pointed out
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    sigh i now regret for asking you to reply to me lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Itachi did not become a sociopath. He still cared about sasuke a lot and that's why he did what he did after the massacre. Itachi was crearly a pacifist and Tobi said it himself, but he was forced to murder his clan and that was still torturing him. And that alone did not kill him, it just accelerated his health problems.
    i used sociopath as an example. correct Itachi still loved and even looked after his brother. but what about his whole clan? his mother and father? his best friend who was like a brother to him? his lover, neighbor, aunts and uncles? he murdered his whole family tree. and you cant argue that is sociopathic.

    and this is all 13 years earlier before and you are claiming he was sick from stress of it? thats bullshit Anub. seriously Itachi wouldnt be sick from that. he is a hardcore ninja, who severed his emotions for the sake of a mission and his village. he did not get sick from "stress". thats so pansy.

    Itachi had to back him into a corner. That doesn't mean that Itachi had to go 100% to do it right? It doesn't say anywhere that Itachi had to be at his best to back sasuke up into a corner.
    i never said it that anywhere it says it Anub. but it makes the most sense. that to push Sasuke to his limits, he couldnt go easy on him. instead of being biased think about that and why it would make sense.

    Here's why Itachi would "pursue" naruto : He used naruto as an excuse to enter the leaf.
    He probably even requested to be sent after the fox. He let Danzo know he was alive by beating one of Konoha's best and then chased after naruto, but it was just for Kisame's sake. Otherwise, what would be the point in going to the leaf, beating up kakashi and then going back. That would have blown his cover and it would have been all over.
    But by your theory, Itachi ACTUALLY tried to capture naruto but failed. Because Itachi only killed his clan to protect Konoha. Now he is dumber so he decided to take away Konoha's strongest weapon without a reason. Good thinking my friend. If you don't see the logic in this, I cannot make you see it. It's right there, you just have to be open to it.
    lol stop. this whole paragraph is all bullshit. i proved you wrong. you cannot deny the manga. just admit you had it wrong man lol.

    but i will add that him asking to go after Naruto and using it as an excuse is plausible. very. but still he went after Naruto. him being interupted by Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenai, Guy, Sasuke and finally Jiraiya added to him losing alot of chakra from Tsukiyomis and Amaterasu was just another excuse for him to pull out.

    but he was after Naruto. you was wrong. and dont try to make me the one that cant "see logic". you are so biased my friend and so stuck in your own ideas that you'd even ignore proof from the manga.

    Itachi never showed ANY emotion. Why would he show sings? Why would Kishi ruin one of the greatest surprises in the manga by having itachi fall to the floor every once in a while?
    Zetsu has seen Itachi before, but when did Zetsu last see Itachi fight? Zetsu doesn't know everything... he saw Itachi fight better before and saw the difference when vs sasuke.
    Zetsu knows alot. nobody knows everything. but Zetsu knew enough and very well that Itachi was not his normal self. he was able to recognize Itachis Tsukiyomi and he was very sure that Itachi normally had enough speed to dodge Sasuke's shadow shuriken.

    Zetsus reactions to Itachis fighting performance as i had explained in my last comment is a good reason to believe that the sickness was recent instead of long term.

    The fight between Kakashi + Naruto vs Itachi is proof enough that Itachi agreed with having his eye-sight deteriorated. Most likely his MS played the major part in his sickness. His sickness progressed alongside his MS
    wrong. evidently blindness progresses alongside with MS usage. not any sickness. what evidence is there to show Sasuke being sick? none. but there is plenty to show he is losing sight.

    if the sickness is related to MS than it would be something that wouldnt effect the user immediatly as you would want to believe.

    but than again sickness from MS is all a theory.

    Actually, being such a good "fanboy" (that I have been called before by random users), I tend to notice that Itachi was kind-hearted and not at all a typical shinobi. Look at any flashbacks of him. Kakashi is stone cold compared to Itachi... I can really believe that stress caused that, because he is still human (well a character-human). And he suffered a lot obviously.
    lol i called you a fan. you called yourself a fanboy lol.

    Itachi was kind hearted. kind hearted to kill the women that birthed him and the man that raised him and kill his family and friends and the guy that was his best friend and like a brother to him. etc.

    lol sarcasm.

    but seriously to say the guy who chose his village over his own flesh and blood, makes Kakashi look stone cold? dont you feel completely wrong by even thinking that? only aspect of Itachi being kind is sparing his younger brother and planning on making him the avenger of the Uchiha name but even that is not saying much. he killed his own family man. thats not cool. even for a village. i would choose my family over my country in a heartbeat.

    and Itachi is more than human. he is a shinobi, once an anbu who were trained to pick the completion of a mission over the life of a comrade, and he is an Akatsuki. he obducted and killed jinchurikis who had done nothing to him. Itachi was a hero to his village but also a betrayer to his family.

    and he is cold, he would only have to be cold to kill his own family. stress over the genocide of the Uchihas was not an issue for Itachi.



    What do you mean Kabuto doesn't control them? There a line in almost every chapter now in which a resurrected shinobi complains that he cannot move his body on his on and someone is controlling him...
    And Itachi will most likely not fight because he will find a way to break from Kabuto's control like Hanzo did.


    Itachi having the same intelligence? How? His mind does not work in harmony with his body, being an edo tensei. Kabuto was surprised that Hanzo broke out of his control.
    never did i said Kabuto doesnt control them. if you must quote me do so correctly. i chose my words very carefully cuz i knew you'd try to say something like that

    yes Kabuto does control some aspects of some of the ninjas. he forces them to go to destinations, forces them to fight. some of the edos (good ninjas) he would completely erase their personalties to prevent them from being released from talk no jutsu, and the others (bad ninjas) he wouldnt need to erase their personalites cuz they will willingfully want to kill other ninjas.

    but Kabuto does not control how they fight. that is definite. those he erase personalities he gives them one cammand and thats to kill. and from their the edos do the killing in how they personally do it best. the bad ninjas wouldnt even need that command. example the Kin Gin and Kakuzu. they seemed very in control in attacking when they wanted to attack.

    and my biggest examples also proved my points when i mentioned Haku and Hanzo.

    btw you seriously gotta be joking to say Itachi will find a way to resist Edo Tensi. you must really think Itachi is a god huh. he will not break ET. he will most likely be one of those whos personality is completely erased like Zabuza and Haku and go on a killing spree.

    btw Hanzo did not break Kabutos control. 1st off there is no proof. 2nd you cannot prove it either cuz you perception of Edo Tensi is wrong. Hanzo had some freedom in his control, had a change of heart and decided to off himself. Kabuto who came to realize that Hanzo was jepardizing himself quickly switch to erase Hanzos personality and turn him into a mindless zombie. but it was too late.

    btw if you seriously think that Kabuto controls every single aspect of the characters even to their own fighting style, than you must believe that Kabuto controls even the words they say too huh?

    seriously Anub. you are wrong in this arguement here.


    Before, he only shower sasuke images that didn't involve his body. This time, he actually caused Sasuke mental pain. For all we know he went soft when seeing how sasuke suffered and decided to break the tsukyiomi, but make it look like sasuke did it. But be real: Itachi = the best genjutsu user in the naruto universe. Sasuke was trained by Orochimaru, who doesn't know much genjutsu. Do you really think that Sasuke, an amateur genjutsu user, without proper genjutsu training could defeat the best genjutsu user? If you say "yes", you are biased (just so you know).
    Itachi giving Sasuke a "weaker" version of Tsukiyomi is theory.

    Sasuke breaking Tsukiyomi genjutsu with a regular sharingan is proof. i will end it on that note.

    good tactician = used his sharingan and chakra to a minimum, while still winning the fight. How many fighters have done that before? From what I know, just one: Minato. Itachi and Minato found ways to finish the fight early and they were both geniuses.
    lol your comparing Minato to Itachi?!? lol wooooow. well if your going to do that compare how Minato handled Madara to how Itachi handled Madara.

    anyways that is not in your definition, a good tactitian. Kakashi, Shikamaru and even Naruto has shown qualities of a good tactitian. Itachi has not. he has only showned that he is extremely powerful. and he able to pwn powerful ninjas with one move just proves he is extremely powerful, not that hes a great tactitian or super smart.

    I gave Minato as an example of shinobi that doesn't use genjutsu and still goes for the quick win.
    quick win? Minato was also a tactitian who used brains to defeat oponents. not brawns like Itachi. his ability to analyxed his opponents, the battle situations and come up with a stragedy to win is shown in Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack.

    when going to the battle field the Leaf was surrounded, but he had the leaf ninjas throw his signature kunais at the enemies. it would allow him to FTG to the enemies and defeat them all. that was genuis.

    agaisnt Madara, in a short period of time he was able to not only come to the conclusion that the masked ninja was Madara, but time Madaras space time and counter it.

    whats the most complicated stradegy has Itachi have to come up with to defeat anybody? dropping dead for Sasuke?

    Figure this out then: If Itachi didn't plan the fight, what % of a chance would you give that the fight just happened to end at that moment?
    if Itachi didnt plan to lose than he would win. does that answer your question?

    and do you agree Itachi did not plan the fight with Sasuke, detail for detail, as you put it.

    Itachi planned a break from tsukyiomi lol. Pointless if the whole thing would have ended in genjutsu. He OBVIOUSLY planned on Sasuke dodging amaterasu. Why use one of the strongest ninjutsu on a person you don't really want to kill? Thin logically, man. Kirin was a surprise to Itachi. The fight ended with Itachi dieing beucase he over-strained himself. Itachi PLANNED to die in this fight. So he knew how much he could push himself and how much chakra he needed for each MS ability. He also knew that if he was to face sasuke and get oro out, he needed to win before losing. So Itachi won the fight actually because he achieved what he wanted and then before dieing he activated amaterasu in sasuke's eyes to go off when seeing Madara, all because he anticipated it. So everything was planned, except for Kirin and a few moves. You need to see that.
    "you arent as smart as i thought you were " - my IQ proves otherwise.
    i completely agree with you in everything in red...

    everything else im not too sure but you make great points i'll admit. i would like to think Sasuke broke Tsukiyomi by his own skills, and dodged Amaterasu by his own skills. but its plausible that Itachi eased on the Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu attacks by how you put it. so im on the fence about it.

    How about this?
    Itachi failing = Not pushing sasuke far enough to release Oro (that would have meant that Sasuke was not cured from Oro and Itachi's whole "save sasuke" plan would have been ruined you should agree) and not implanting amaterasu in sasuke's eyes.a
    Itachi was stronger than Sasuke, even in his sickness, but he also couldn't allow sasuke to finish the fight early. You need to understand the dilemma here: 1. let sasuke finish him off earlier and keep some of his chakra so that he can maybe escape from Tobi, but still risk Oro taking over him at anytime during his future fights, or 2. drain sasuke's chakra completely and find a way to still protect sasuke even with a low chakra (by implanting amaterasu into his eyes so that he would have a strong defense when being captured). That right there is an extremely good choice.
    lol wait what?!?!

    i agree fully but i dont even know what was the point of that paragraph!

    It's ok
    cool.. btw i typed slower and may have less typos.


    I won't respond to pemayozer. It's that simple. But if YOU would like to know, we are talking about theoretical full power. That means the best the fighter has ever been, with his skills and experience intact. So I'm not sure about Nagato's past, but either way, Nagato at full power is stronger than the one that faced Naruto.
    ok.. cant really say i care if you respond to him or not. by your desciption we are actually talking about a ninja in their prime. a period where a ninja is at his best. Nagato when he faced Hanzo (and i mean when Yahiko was killed, not when Hanzo was killed) is not stronger or better than when he faced Naruto. why? because of experience. i would say Itachi was at his best before he became terminally sick. i would say he wasnt sick until maybe a little bit after Gaara was rescued. even with Itachi being partially blind he mastered MS, and had the sealing sword and shield (wtf is the names?).


    And why do you say Itachi could never beat Pain? Is Pain really THAT strong? No. Itachi can beat anyone in the naruto universe (easy there itachi haters, I'm not saying he will beat anyone, but with tsukyiomi, he can actually win any fight if he somehow gets a glimpse of an opponent's eye). So even if you think Pain has the advantage, he still doesn't win 100%, because Itachi is way too strong for that. Shinobi like Itachi, Minato, Pain, Madara, Sasuke and Naruto ALWAYS HAVE A FIGHTING CHANCE WHEN UP AGAINST ANY OPPONENT. So you saying that Itachi can "never" beat Pain is you being extremely biased. I am a fan of Itachi but mostly because he is such a great character. And I have defended Itachi on these forums in the past few months more than anyone else. And even I admit that there is a good chance of Itachi losing the fight. Overall, I think Itachi wins, but the odds are 70-30% if they have full knowledge about each other. And to Pain's credit, he's got the highest chance of winning against Itachi out of all the other Shinobi (maybe except EMS Sasuke, EMS Madara and Minato). Without knowledge, Itachi vs Pain would be 50%-50%, as in WAAAAAY too hard to predict, so a coinflip. Accept this and we can finish debating Itachi vs Pain and get back to debating Itachi's full power.
    lmaoo when you said Itachi can beat anyone for a second i was like "wtf?!?!" and than you explained Tsukiyomi and i'll admit you have a point. but even Madara had Tsukiyomi and he was beaten by Hashirama. Tsukiyomi is not invisible. no attack or defense is.

    and of course Pain doesnt win 100% but he still has the best chance of beating Itachi that is for sure. Pain is that strong lol. whatever percentage of power level you think or assume Itachi is add 50 to Pain lol.. Itachi wouldnt have any knowledge of Pain. so Pain would always win, with knowledge (for hypothetical purposes) it would be closer but Pain would still have a higher chance of winning just due to his vast amount of jutsus, incredible amout of chakra and power.


    And one more thing: please post your own percentages in the same way I did. Just curious to see how much weaker you think Itachi at full power is.
    sigh

    idk if i could put a number on it.

    one thing is fact is that the strongest we've ever seen Itachi was fighting Sasuke. and 1. he was sick and 2. he planned to lose. so with those 2 factors its only logical to assume that Itachi is stonger or better than his performance agaisnt Sasuke.

    only clue we have to even determine that is him unable to dodge the shuriken and Zetsu implying that while healthy he would easily have dodge it.

    so healthy Itachi is much faster.

    also his illness was very evident when using Amaterasu and Sasunoo. his stamina may be alot higher while healthy but how much higher is tricky to determine.

    i think about when he visited the Leaf and the reason he gave to Kisame for retreating from Jiraiya is his usage of his MS techniques in one day (2 Tsukiyomis and an Amaterasu). this implies Itachi was drained from using the MS, implies he would have a better chance fighting Jiraiya while at his best and not drained, than again Itachi may not even wanted to capture Naruto in the first place (As you would want to believe and argue). sooo endless possibilities

    another clue to his true power is when he couldnt even use MS techniques when fighting Kakashi and friends because he was at 30% chakra. if MS takes that much chakra that at 30% he cant even use it, and Itachi was drained when using 2 Tsukiyomis and Amaterasu when agaisnt Kakashi, Jiraiya etc but he used Tsukiyomi, 2 or 3 Amaterasus and full Sasunoo when sick than i have no clue and dont even know where to start on how to calculate Itachis full potential.

    my only guess is that when fighting Sasuke he had to push himself very hard. cuz 3 MS techniques made him want to retreat from Jiraiya. cuz MS takes about 70% of his chakra and stamina to use. but with that conclusion than it would mean Itachi was strongest when sick??

    lol idk.. but one thing i am certain is that at full health Itachi can dodge shurikens lol.. everything else is speculative.

    what do you think?
     
         

  3. #53
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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    sigh i now regret for asking you to reply to me lol



    i used sociopath as an example. correct Itachi still loved and even looked after his brother. but what about his whole clan? his mother and father? his best friend who was like a brother to him? his lover, neighbor, aunts and uncles? he murdered his whole family tree. and you cant argue that is sociopathic.

    and this is all 13 years earlier before and you are claiming he was sick from stress of it? thats bullshit Anub. seriously Itachi wouldnt be sick from that. he is a hardcore ninja, who severed his emotions for the sake of a mission and his village. he did not get sick from "stress". thats so pansy.
    Well in all fairness Itachi wasn't the toughest shinobi. He was quite balanced I would say. Let's accept the fact that we don't know.

    i never said it that anywhere it says it Anub. but it makes the most sense. that to push Sasuke to his limits, he couldnt go easy on him. instead of being biased think about that and why it would make sense.
    I'm not saying Itachi went easy on sasuke. I'm saying that it's a very huge coincidence if Itachi's best was EXACTLY what he needed to push sasuke in a corner.



    lol stop. this whole paragraph is all bullshit. i proved you wrong. you cannot deny the manga. just admit you had it wrong man lol.

    but i will add that him asking to go after Naruto and using it as an excuse is plausible. very. but still he went after Naruto. him being interupted by Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenai, Guy, Sasuke and finally Jiraiya added to him losing alot of chakra from Tsukiyomis and Amaterasu was just another excuse for him to pull out.

    but he was after Naruto. you was wrong. and dont try to make me the one that cant "see logic". you are so biased my friend and so stuck in your own ideas that you'd even ignore proof from the manga.
    So you think that if Jirayia wasn't there, he would have captured naruto and taken him to Madara?


    Zetsu knows alot. nobody knows everything. but Zetsu knew enough and very well that Itachi was not his normal self. he was able to recognize Itachis Tsukiyomi and he was very sure that Itachi normally had enough speed to dodge Sasuke's shadow shuriken.

    Zetsus reactions to Itachis fighting performance as i had explained in my last comment is a good reason to believe that the sickness was recent instead of long term.
    I will give you the benefit of the doubt here, just because it's up to speculation.



    wrong. evidently blindness progresses alongside with MS usage. not any sickness. what evidence is there to show Sasuke being sick? none. but there is plenty to show he is losing sight.

    if the sickness is related to MS than it would be something that wouldnt effect the user immediatly as you would want to believe.

    but than again sickness from MS is all a theory.
    Well not really evidence, but Sasuke does say at some point that every cell in his body aches from using a weak version of susanoo. Now from that I figured that it affects the cells in the body, which make them ache. So therefore, MS does affect the body as well.



    lol i called you a fan. you called yourself a fanboy lol.

    Itachi was kind hearted. kind hearted to kill the women that birthed him and the man that raised him and kill his family and friends and the guy that was his best friend and like a brother to him. etc.

    lol sarcasm.

    but seriously to say the guy who chose his village over his own flesh and blood, makes Kakashi look stone cold? dont you feel completely wrong by even thinking that? only aspect of Itachi being kind is sparing his younger brother and planning on making him the avenger of the Uchiha name but even that is not saying much. he killed his own family man. thats not cool. even for a village. i would choose my family over my country in a heartbeat.

    and Itachi is more than human. he is a shinobi, once an anbu who were trained to pick the completion of a mission over the life of a comrade, and he is an Akatsuki. he obducted and killed jinchurikis who had done nothing to him. Itachi was a hero to his village but also a betrayer to his family.

    and he is cold, he would only have to be cold to kill his own family. stress over the genocide of the Uchihas was not an issue for Itachi.
    I didn't say YOU called me a fanboy, just other users. But at some point in the past I do recall you calling me a fanboy if I think about it...
    Anyway, there is so much emphasis on Itachi's dilemma, that I am surprised you defend him on this topic.


    never did i said Kabuto doesnt control them. if you must quote me do so correctly. i chose my words very carefully cuz i knew you'd try to say something like that

    yes Kabuto does control some aspects of some of the ninjas. he forces them to go to destinations, forces them to fight. some of the edos (good ninjas) he would completely erase their personalties to prevent them from being released from talk no jutsu, and the others (bad ninjas) he wouldnt need to erase their personalites cuz they will willingfully want to kill other ninjas.

    but Kabuto does not control how they fight. that is definite. those he erase personalities he gives them one cammand and thats to kill. and from their the edos do the killing in how they personally do it best. the bad ninjas wouldnt even need that command. example the Kin Gin and Kakuzu. they seemed very in control in attacking when they wanted to attack.

    and my biggest examples also proved my points when i mentioned Haku and Hanzo.

    btw you seriously gotta be joking to say Itachi will find a way to resist Edo Tensi. you must really think Itachi is a god huh. he will not break ET. he will most likely be one of those whos personality is completely erased like Zabuza and Haku and go on a killing spree.

    btw Hanzo did not break Kabutos control. 1st off there is no proof. 2nd you cannot prove it either cuz you perception of Edo Tensi is wrong. Hanzo had some freedom in his control, had a change of heart and decided to off himself. Kabuto who came to realize that Hanzo was jepardizing himself quickly switch to erase Hanzos personality and turn him into a mindless zombie. but it was too late.

    btw if you seriously think that Kabuto controls every single aspect of the characters even to their own fighting style, than you must believe that Kabuto controls even the words they say too huh?

    seriously Anub. you are wrong in this arguement here.
    So you believe that each fighter is at their full potential? I don't. I believe that there is another factor that you are forgetting: Kabuto's chakra. And wasn't Orochimaru's edo tensei weaker?

    And if it is as you say, all fighters at full power, then Nagato + Itachi + all the tailed beast (which kept their strengths intact) + all the previous kage summoned should be enough to destroy the alliance. Nagato alone destroyed Konoha.

    But if you're suggesting they're at full power I will accept your choice and remind you that Nagato himself is at full power as well and we'll just see how much he does in comparison to Itachi. Agreed?

    Itachi giving Sasuke a "weaker" version of Tsukiyomi is theory.

    Sasuke breaking Tsukiyomi genjutsu with a regular sharingan is proof. i will end it on that note.
    Sasuke killing Itachi is proof. Was sasuke stronger than Itachi? No. Don't take everything from the manga so literally.
    lol your comparing Minato to Itachi?!? lol wooooow. well if your going to do that compare how Minato handled Madara to how Itachi handled Madara.

    anyways that is not in your definition, a good tactitian. Kakashi, Shikamaru and even Naruto has shown qualities of a good tactitian. Itachi has not. he has only showned that he is extremely powerful. and he able to pwn powerful ninjas with one move just proves he is extremely powerful, not that hes a great tactitian or super smart.
    Comparing their styles (as in they both finished fights early). I don't think Itachi is anywhere near Minato's level though. But he is smart. And don't pick on "how Itachi handled Madara" because Madara himself said that if Itachi knew everything about him, he would have already been dead. I'm not trying to say Itachi is stronger than Minato, just that Itachi is stronger than you give him credit.


    quick win? Minato was also a tactitian who used brains to defeat oponents. not brawns like Itachi. his ability to analyxed his opponents, the battle situations and come up with a stragedy to win is shown in Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack.

    when going to the battle field the Leaf was surrounded, but he had the leaf ninjas throw his signature kunais at the enemies. it would allow him to FTG to the enemies and defeat them all. that was genuis.

    agaisnt Madara, in a short period of time he was able to not only come to the conclusion that the masked ninja was Madara, but time Madaras space time and counter it.

    whats the most complicated stradegy has Itachi have to come up with to defeat anybody? dropping dead for Sasuke?
    First of all, Minato was older and more experienced than Itachi.
    Second of all, Itachi was anbu at 13 (or something like that). Did they give Sasuke the title of chunnin after the exams just because he was strong? Or Naruto? Or someone else for that matter? They gave shikamaru the title, because he was smart and capable. Do you think Itachi got into anbu by sheer power? Come on. Stop hating Itachi. Unlike naruto who used the fox's power a lot, or sasuke who got random power-ups without training, Itachi actually trained and worked to get to where he was. You should give him more credit. True that we don't see a lot of him in the manga. But we see the KinGin for a few chapters and everyone assumes they are So6p's sons (intentional exaggeration).


    if Itachi didnt plan to lose than he would win. does that answer your question?

    and do you agree Itachi did not plan the fight with Sasuke, detail for detail, as you put it.
    Of course I agree.


    i completely agree with you in everything in red...

    everything else im not too sure but you make great points i'll admit. i would like to think Sasuke broke Tsukiyomi by his own skills, and dodged Amaterasu by his own skills. but its plausible that Itachi eased on the Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu attacks by how you put it. so im on the fence about it.
    Glad you agree.

    lol wait what?!?!

    i agree fully but i dont even know what was the point of that paragraph!
    Basically what I meant was that Itachi knew he was about to lose. So to his credit, he needed to decide on the moment when to lose. So then he had a few options, along with the 2 big ones that I just said in that quote.




    ok.. cant really say i care if you respond to him or not. by your desciption we are actually talking about a ninja in their prime. a period where a ninja is at his best. Nagato when he faced Hanzo (and i mean when Yahiko was killed, not when Hanzo was killed) is not stronger or better than when he faced Naruto. why? because of experience. i would say Itachi was at his best before he became terminally sick. i would say he wasnt sick until maybe a little bit after Gaara was rescued. even with Itachi being partially blind he mastered MS, and had the sealing sword and shield (wtf is the names?).
    I know what you are saying. But in a vs where people say "both fighters at full power + full knowledge" they mean that both fighters are in their best form, with all the experience they gathered, and they have full knowledge about the other person. This is a hypothetical situation and not at all manga reality. That's why we are discussing Itachi's hypothetical full power that would be used in a versus. Itachi at his best is arguable. It would most likely be a point where he didn't have his full vision, but mastered susanoo.



    lmaoo when you said Itachi can beat anyone for a second i was like "wtf?!?!" and than you explained Tsukiyomi and i'll admit you have a point. but even Madara had Tsukiyomi and he was beaten by Hashirama. Tsukiyomi is not invisible. no attack or defense is.

    and of course Pain doesnt win 100% but he still has the best chance of beating Itachi that is for sure. Pain is that strong lol. whatever percentage of power level you think or assume Itachi is add 50 to Pain lol.. Itachi wouldnt have any knowledge of Pain. so Pain would always win, with knowledge (for hypothetical purposes) it would be closer but Pain would still have a higher chance of winning just due to his vast amount of jutsus, incredible amout of chakra and power.
    If it makes you feel any better I have changed my mind about 50-50. I reviews some chapters and believe that Pain would have the advantage against Itachi if they don't have knowledge about each other.



    sigh

    idk if i could put a number on it.

    one thing is fact is that the strongest we've ever seen Itachi was fighting Sasuke. and 1. he was sick and 2. he planned to lose. so with those 2 factors its only logical to assume that Itachi is stonger or better than his performance agaisnt Sasuke.

    only clue we have to even determine that is him unable to dodge the shuriken and Zetsu implying that while healthy he would easily have dodge it.

    so healthy Itachi is much faster.

    also his illness was very evident when using Amaterasu and Sasunoo. his stamina may be alot higher while healthy but how much higher is tricky to determine.

    i think about when he visited the Leaf and the reason he gave to Kisame for retreating from Jiraiya is his usage of his MS techniques in one day (2 Tsukiyomis and an Amaterasu). this implies Itachi was drained from using the MS, implies he would have a better chance fighting Jiraiya while at his best and not drained, than again Itachi may not even wanted to capture Naruto in the first place (As you would want to believe and argue). sooo endless possibilities

    another clue to his true power is when he couldnt even use MS techniques when fighting Kakashi and friends because he was at 30% chakra. if MS takes that much chakra that at 30% he cant even use it, and Itachi was drained when using 2 Tsukiyomis and Amaterasu when agaisnt Kakashi, Jiraiya etc but he used Tsukiyomi, 2 or 3 Amaterasus and full Sasunoo when sick than i have no clue and dont even know where to start on how to calculate Itachis full potential.

    my only guess is that when fighting Sasuke he had to push himself very hard. cuz 3 MS techniques made him want to retreat from Jiraiya. cuz MS takes about 70% of his chakra and stamina to use. but with that conclusion than it would mean Itachi was strongest when sick??

    lol idk.. but one thing i am certain is that at full health Itachi can dodge shurikens lol.. everything else is speculative.

    what do you think?
    Good analysis with details, but maybe you're putting too much math into it. I do believe that Tsukyiomi has its levels. He used tsukyiomi for 72 hours. That was 1 second in reality, but it actually lasted 72 hours in Itachi and Kakashi's heads. So he used Ms for 72 hours continually if you wish to put it like that. And that is a really long period to use MS. I believe you may argue about the 72 hours, but Itachi was able to think, speak and move within his genjutsu, so he actually lived within his time frame. So that would also mean the genjutsu was active and used chakra. You can argue that the Tsukyiomi he used against Kakashi was the strongest one he ever used and that's why he was so drained. Also the amount of amaterasu used vs sasuke was huge. You cannot really consider "he used x tsukyiomi and z amaterasu" because you are forgetting the strengths of the jutsus. He used a short tsukyiomi vs sasuke, but a very strong amaterasu. He burned the surroundings with it. That was the most amaterasu used in the manga up to date. I'm guessing that with it being one of the strongest jutsu, it also drains the user quite easily. And Itachi clearly had enough chakra for that much amaterasu, even at that point in the battle. Would you agree with this?
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Well in all fairness Itachi wasn't the toughest shinobi. He was quite balanced I would say. Let's accept the fact that we don't know.
    i think he was one of the toughest shinobis. he made a huge sacrifice. he destroyed his name and reputation and commited genocide on Uchihas. but agrred we dont know for sure.


    I'm not saying Itachi went easy on sasuke. I'm saying that it's a very huge coincidence if Itachi's best was EXACTLY what he needed to push sasuke in a corner.
    i know what you mean. its hard to explain but i would say him being sick played a role and why i would say he had to give it his best.


    So you think that if Jirayia wasn't there, he would have captured naruto and taken him to Madara?
    he would have capturd Naruto and taken him to Pain. i dont even believe Itachi knew Madara was running Akatsuki from the shadows (i may be wrong. maybe he didn mention it) but yea i think Jiraiaya was a huge reason and excuse for Itachi to just bounce.

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt here, just because it's up to speculation.
    i think you see where i'm coming from with the Zetsu though.

    Well not really evidence, but Sasuke does say at some point that every cell in his body aches from using a weak version of susanoo. Now from that I figured that it affects the cells in the body, which make them ache. So therefore, MS does affect the body as well.
    lol you are correct but that only meant Sasuke was in pain! not sick. just like how Kakashi after using MS on Deidara had to be carried by Guy back to the Leaf and be in bed rest at the hospital cuz MS takes a toll on nt only the eye but the body as well.

    and before you mention it i do know Kakashi is more prone to feeling the effects of MS cuz hes a non Uchiha. but still it applies cuz Itachi seemed tired after using MS both when returning to Leaf and agaisnt Sasuke and Sasuke like you said complained of the pain.

    but agreed MS affects the body. Kisame even said overuse can kill.

    I didn't say YOU called me a fanboy, just other users. But at some point in the past I do recall you calling me a fanboy if I think about it...
    Anyway, there is so much emphasis on Itachi's dilemma, that I am surprised you defend him on this topic.
    lol andi remember being called a hater but whatever the past is past. ive gotten used to this rivalry of ours.

    but yea i defend the truth or at least how i percieve what is truthful. and truthfully i just see Itachi to be too hardcore to be sickened from stress over the massacre

    So you believe that each fighter is at their full potential? I don't. I believe that there is another factor that you are forgetting: Kabuto's chakra. And wasn't Orochimaru's edo tensei weaker?
    no. for instance Hiruzen before he died was not at his prime. Oro said a several years earlier and he would have been beaten. Jiraiya before he died i believe he was in his prime. Kakashi is also currently in his prime. Naruto and Sasuke are just now entering their prime. etc etc..

    oh wait your talking about Edo Tensi guys lol...

    actually thats hard to say. all the ET are different. some are not how they were when they were alive which to some is a good thing and others a bad thing. Sasori was not in his puppet form which put him at a disadvantage. Kakuzu did not start out with his 5 hearts and had to collect them in the fight before being able to use his 4 elemental monsters. but all of them have a great advantage of not being able to die and able to regenrate lost limbs. this might even mean unlimited chakra for each character.

    i dont even think Kabutos chakra is a big deal. the only concern Kabuto had for hi chakra was the amount of ETs he could control at one time. nothing else is really known between the jutsu Edo Tensi and how it effects Kabutos chakra.

    And if it is as you say, all fighters at full power, then Nagato + Itachi + all the tailed beast (which kept their strengths intact) + all the previous kage summoned should be enough to destroy the alliance. Nagato alone destroyed Konoha.
    theoritcally yes that is correct. Pain, Itachi, mostly all the Edo Tensis were extrmemly powerful. but you underestimate the alliance. the combined forces of 5 great villages and samurais, all their added intel, stradegies and teamwork is paying off greatly agaisnt the ETs.. Kankuro who was easily defeated by Sasori before had surpassed his puppetry, Omoi and Sai played a great role in defeating Deidara, Mifune who was defeated by Hanzo before was victorious, Kakashi's leadership is a huge cause into bringing down Zabuza and Haku, who he had beaten before, Darui, thanks to Samui and Atsuis help and intel, defeated Kin Gin. Ino-shika-Cho who knows Asuma the most are going to be the ones to bring him down. Onoiki is going to help Gaara bring down Muu, 4th Kazekage and the other kages. even Tenten helped bring down one of Kakuzus monsters.

    and this is all possible because of knowledge! the Edo Tensi's tricks and secrets are known by the aliances, the ones who are most familiar with the ET are usually the one defeating them. all of Itachis and Pains secrets will be known and beating them will be possible, not easy, but possible.

    Nagato alone destroyed the Leaf because not everything was known about his power. Naruto was able to beat him and counter his attacks because of the knowledge gathered by Jiraiya, Katsuyu who gathered information from the ninjas that fought Pain like Shizune and Kakashi etc. Nagato's because weapon was his secrets. but all of it is known now by the alliance through the Leafs intel.


    But if you're suggesting they're at full power I will accept your choice and remind you that Nagato himself is at full power as well and we'll just see how much he does in comparison to Itachi. Agreed?
    i cant say they all are at "full power". Nagato is not in his chair thing and does not have his 6 Paths of Pains. this unable him to fight at his best like how Sasori didnt have his puppets or puppet body. Pain may have to adjust like Sasori substituted ninjas for puppets, or Pain will find a way to get 6 bodies like Kakuzu found a way to get 5 hearts.

    Itachi will be a little overpowered. no sickness means we see how he fights without health restrictions. but than again he cant die, limbs are regenerated, and limitless chakra and MS usage.

    Sasuke killing Itachi is proof. Was sasuke stronger than Itachi? No. Don't take everything from the manga so literally.
    its actually not proof. it could be that Itachi let him win or gave him a better chance of winning. or it could been all by Sasukes skills that he beat Tsukiyomi. theres no right or wrong way to even look at it.

    Comparing their styles (as in they both finished fights early). I don't think Itachi is anywhere near Minato's level though. But he is smart. And don't pick on "how Itachi handled Madara" because Madara himself said that if Itachi knew everything about him, he would have already been dead. I'm not trying to say Itachi is stronger than Minato, just that Itachi is stronger than you give him credit.
    Itachi is smart. but he has not shown to be a great tactitian as people would always claim. i remember in the KinGin vs Itachi thread people said Itachi would figure out their tricks. like Itachi is a mind reader. Itachi would be sealed before he could figure it out. same agaisnt Pain. Jiraiya was the only one who could possibly figure out that much about Pain. Jiraiya had fought all the Pain bodies previously and he trained Nagato, Yahiko and Konan. same with Darui figuring out KinGins. its because of Samui's and Atsui's help in giving him intel and getting sealed that helped Darui figure out a way to beat them. also a little luck cuz of his taboo switched with perfect timing. Itachi would not hae the advantage of Jiraiya or Darui agaisnt KinGin or Pain so how people say "Itachi wl figure it out" always piss me off lol..

    and yes of course IF Itachi knew everything about Madara, Itachi would have taken Madara out. but that proves that Itachi isnt a great tactitian cuz HE DIDNT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT MADARA. he didnt even know enough to take him out. Minato within a few minutes pwned Madara, Konan proves to be a better tactitian than Itachi cuz she figued a way to kill Madara and beat he's space/time. to bad for her that Madara could use Inazagi.

    i give Itachi alot of credit but i think you give him too much. that is where we always butt heads is that you think i underrate him and i think you overrate him.

    First of all, Minato was older and more experienced than Itachi.
    Second of all, Itachi was anbu at 13 (or something like that). Did they give Sasuke the title of chunnin after the exams just because he was strong? Or Naruto? Or someone else for that matter? They gave shikamaru the title, because he was smart and capable. Do you think Itachi got into anbu by sheer power? Come on. Stop hating Itachi. Unlike naruto who used the fox's power a lot, or sasuke who got random power-ups without training, Itachi actually trained and worked to get to where he was. You should give him more credit. True that we don't see a lot of him in the manga. But we see the KinGin for a few chapters and everyone assumes they are So6p's sons (intentional exaggeration).
    Sasuke was the best in his class after graduating from the academy. year before Sasukes class, Neji was the best in his graduating class. Shikumaru was the only one promoted to chunnin in the chunnin exams, despite how cool Sasuke looked fighting Gaara, or that Naruto won agaisnt Neji, or Temari beat Shikumaru, Shikumaru was promoted because of his display of problem solving.

    anyways...Itachi is a prodigy child, a genious. but that doesnt mean he is Sikumaru smart. i jus think he was just really gifted as a child, able to pick up jutsus quickly (like Sasuke) and compete with even te ninjas much older than him. nothing shows anything on how Itachi can outsmart a ninja. its only been shown that Itachi takes them out quickly with a powerful jutsu (mostly always genjutsu).

    train and work hard? only people like Lee and Naruto have had to train and work hard because they arent gifted like the "geniouses". Naruto was very low to pick up on thetechniques but when always compared to Sasuke, Sasuke would excel and make jutsus look like kids play. Itachi was most likely like Sasuke and Neji growing up. able to do the powerful and complicated jutsus with ease and swagger lol. not like Naruto and Lee who had to spend gruelling hours to train and learn jutsus.

    Of course I agree.
    ok cool


    Glad you agree.
    yea its good we're actually seeing eye to eye on some stuffs.


    Basically what I meant was that Itachi knew he was about to lose. So to his credit, he needed to decide on the moment when to lose. So then he had a few options, along with the 2 big ones that I just said in that quote.
    no way. Itachi planned to die to Sasuke the moment he let Sasuke live. the plan to free him from Oro only came after Sasuke affiliated himself with Oro and defeated him. so i think from the beginning of the fight Itachi planned to free him from Oro and lose.

    I know what you are saying. But in a vs where people say "both fighters at full power + full knowledge" they mean that both fighters are in their best form, with all the experience they gathered, and they have full knowledge about the other person. This is a hypothetical situation and not at all manga reality. That's why we are discussing Itachi's hypothetical full power that would be used in a versus. Itachi at his best is arguable. It would most likely be a point where he didn't have his full vision, but mastered susanoo.
    ok agreed.. definently bold part.

    If it makes you feel any better I have changed my mind about 50-50. I reviews some chapters and believe that Pain would have the advantage against Itachi if they don't have knowledge about each other.
    lol its better i guess. what did you read or see that made you change you mind ? lol

    Good analysis with details, but maybe you're putting too much math into it. I do believe that Tsukyiomi has its levels. He used tsukyiomi for 72 hours. That was 1 second in reality, but it actually lasted 72 hours in Itachi and Kakashi's heads. So he used Ms for 72 hours continually if you wish to put it like that. And that is a really long period to use MS. I believe you may argue about the 72 hours, but Itachi was able to think, speak and move within his genjutsu, so he actually lived within his time frame. So that would also mean the genjutsu was active and used chakra. You can argue that the Tsukyiomi he used against Kakashi was the strongest one he ever used and that's why he was so drained. Also the amount of amaterasu used vs sasuke was huge. You cannot really consider "he used x tsukyiomi and z amaterasu" because you are forgetting the strengths of the jutsus. He used a short tsukyiomi vs sasuke, but a very strong amaterasu. He burned the surroundings with it. That was the most amaterasu used in the manga up to date. I'm guessing that with it being one of the strongest jutsu, it also drains the user quite easily. And Itachi clearly had enough chakra for that much amaterasu, even at that point in the battle. Would you agree with this?
    damn. you factoring in Tsukiyomi time length and Amaterasu flame area made it even more complicated. but Amaterasu burning the forest was a result of a few missed Amaterasu attacks and the flames spread across the forest right? its not like Itachi sent out huge massice black flames did he? or maybe he did i honestly dont remember.

    and dont forget that Itachi against Sasuke even used Sasunoo. smh.

    but idk honestly how to imagine Itachi's best (when not sick). Itachis "full power" is definently would be him not sick.

    but i think we will know once he fights in the war.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    I believe this thread became a debate between the two of us. I agree that you bring valid points, but I also agree with my points. There is no right or wrong here because we're talking about assumptions and theories. So I suggest we leave it like that.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    What is itachi at full power? you mean when he just got MS? that is very subjective, because then you take all the experiance from him(experiance he gathered from battle, people, and simply getting older) which makes him weaker in my opinion.

    Another thing is, you can`t argue using manufactured stats.......but no question about itachi being one of the strongest character in naruto.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    I believe this thread became a debate between the two of us. I agree that you bring valid points, but I also agree with my points. There is no right or wrong here because we're talking about assumptions and theories. So I suggest we leave it like that.
    agreed
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    What is itachi at full power? you mean when he just got MS? that is very subjective, because then you take all the experiance from him(experiance he gathered from battle, people, and simply getting older) which makes him weaker in my opinion.

    Another thing is, you can`t argue using manufactured stats.......but no question about itachi being one of the strongest character in naruto.
    I just discussed about this a few posts ago...
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    I know what you are saying. But in a vs where people say "both fighters at full power + full knowledge" they mean that both fighters are in their best form, with all the experience they gathered, and they have full knowledge about the other person. This is a hypothetical situation and not at all manga reality. That's why we are discussing Itachi's hypothetical full power that would be used in a versus. Itachi at his best is arguable. It would most likely be a point where he didn't have his full vision, but mastered susanoo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    I just discussed about this a few posts ago...
    lol sorry impossible to read the entire thread...but seems llike you changed your tune since the opening of this thread. you are right, when you later say that the only reasonable thing, is to say that itachi was at full power when he was "less" weak/blind and had the same skills, he had against sasuke.
    But the argument would become silly when you start dreaming up stats instead of saying e.g. " how strong was itachi in his prime?".then it goes from stats to speculation....

    i would put him in category with the likes of jiraiya and oro.
     
         
    Last edited by siyo; 04-01-2011 at 02:13 AM.

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    lol sorry impossible to read the entire thread...but seems llike you changed your tune since the opening of this thread. you are right, when you later say that the only reasonable thing, is to say that itachi was at full power when he was "less" weak/blind and had the same skills, he had against sasuke.
    But the argument would become silly when you start dreaming up stats instead of saying e.g. " how strong was itachi in his prime?".then it goes from stats to speculation....

    i would put him in category with the likes of jiraiya and oro.
    So you would put him in the same category as Orochimaru, knowing full well that Itachi defeated Orochimaru in just a few seconds and he said that Orochimaru could never defeat him (actually he said that he could never win against his eyes or something like that)?
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    So you would put him in the same category as Orochimaru, knowing full well that Itachi defeated Orochimaru in just a few seconds and he said that Orochimaru could never defeat him (actually he said that he could never win against his eyes or something like that)?
    sadly enough Oro was shown to be pathetic in shippuden. and agreed Itachi proved to be superior to him in a few occassions. i would though put Itachi in leagues with Jiraiya though. i think thats fair.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    nah i dont recon he was using 3x less power other wise he could of taking out the whole uchiha by himself but he was wealend alot when he faced sasuke
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    sadly enough Oro was shown to be pathetic in shippuden. and agreed Itachi proved to be superior to him in a few occassions. i would though put Itachi in leagues with Jiraiya though. i think thats fair.
    Sage Jirayia > Itachi > base Jirayia

    I just don't see base Jirayia being able to counter any MS tech for too long.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Sage Jirayia > Itachi > base Jirayia

    I just don't see base Jirayia being able to counter any MS tech for too long.
    Wow, really?

    IMO, Itachi (at full power/health) > Sage Jiraiya.
    At the most, Sage Jiraiya = Itachi (at full power/health).
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnockout View Post
    Wow, really?

    IMO, Itachi (at full power/health) > Sage Jiraiya.
    At the most, Sage Jiraiya = Itachi (at full power/health).
    Well I did think about this.

    Sage jirayia would escape amaterasu, would not be affected by genjutsu because of the toads on his shoulders and is fast enough to avoid susano'o fost as long as itachi has chakra left. The only way I see Itachi winning is if I can argue that Tsukyiomi is a lot faster than normal genjutsu and itachi can cast it and torture jirayia for a while before the toads are able to detect it. It also depends how fast Itachi's susano'o is. And one more thing: if Itachi activates susano'o and manages to keep it for a while, all Jirayia needs to do is get some distance and have the frogs perform a sound genjutsu. Sage Jirayia is one of the few shinobi that can beat Itachi at full power.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    there was so much to read on they way to the last page of this thread lol im done with it hahahah, i don't even know what to say lol
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    So you would put him in the same category as Orochimaru, knowing full well that Itachi defeated Orochimaru in just a few seconds and he said that Orochimaru could never defeat him (actually he said that he could never win against his eyes or something like that)?

    Powerwise, not 1 on 1 against itachi.It has been proven that the sharingan is oro's weakness therefore he would never win against itachi.At the same time i feel like oro would do better against other S class ninjas than itachi would.(Just because A can beat B does not mean A can beat B, who B already defeated) .

    Oro is probably the guy beside the third(maybe pein) who has the most ninjustu techs in the manga.Taijustu does not work against him,he got multiple lives and even in a weakened state he could toy with the nine tailed beast(the 4th tailed version).This guy is no joke and was the most gifted of the sannin(natural abilities).
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    Powerwise, not 1 on 1 against itachi.It has been proven that the sharingan is oro's weakness therefore he would never win against itachi.At the same time i feel like oro would do better against other S class ninjas than itachi would.(Just because A can beat B does not mean A can beat B, who B already defeated) .

    Oro is probably the guy beside the third(maybe pein) who has the most ninjustu techs in the manga.Taijustu does not work against him,he got multiple lives and even in a weakened state he could toy with the nine tailed beast(the 4th tailed version).This guy is no joke and was the most gifted of the sannin(natural abilities).
    Itachi knew how to to handle Oro, quick enough for it and ready for him. Totsuka(?) sword Itachi used or whatever it was , was not part of Uchiha arsenal I think for somebody said that Oro had been looking for it or was it? Just curious..

    Still Oro was unique and he still lives on.. He is trapped not dead. he lives in Kabuto and others..

    Itachi said Jiraiya was a little better than him. That his best would be to take Jiraiya out along with him- ie both of them die.

    As for his mysterious illness- I don't believe Madara's word that much. I do believe Zetsu- I think Itachi's tiredness/loss of energy had something to do with his gift to Naruto. Zetsu didn't blame any sickness but he said that it seemed Itachi had sustained some serious injury or something just before his battle with Sasuke began.
     
         

  19. #69
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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by isthatnecessary View Post
    Itachi knew how to to handle Oro, quick enough for it and ready for him. Totsuka(?) sword Itachi used or whatever it was , was not part of Uchiha arsenal I think for somebody said that Oro had been looking for it or was it? Just curious..

    Still Oro was unique and he still lives on.. He is trapped not dead. he lives in Kabuto and others..

    Itachi said Jiraiya was a little better than him. That his best would be to take Jiraiya out along with him- ie both of them die.

    As for his mysterious illness- I don't believe Madara's word that much. I do believe Zetsu- I think Itachi's tiredness/loss of energy had something to do with his gift to Naruto. Zetsu didn't blame any sickness but he said that it seemed Itachi had sustained some serious injury or something just before his battle with Sasuke began.

    yes, itachi was ready for oro,but i still think he is oro's kryptonit,but as i have explained he is in the same league as itachi(powerwise).I also remember oro knowing about itachi's sword,and i actually think he was looking for it.So i don`t think sasuke will get it unless itachi already gave him it(don`t think so since he has not used it yet).
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    no more handouts for sasuke, JK he wouldnt be able to get stronger if that were the case
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnockout View Post
    Wow, really?

    IMO, Itachi (at full power/health) > Sage Jiraiya.
    At the most, Sage Jiraiya = Itachi (at full power/health).
    you dont even know how strong Itachi in good health can even do. :flaw:
     
         

  22. #72
    Indomitable Spirit kam's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Well I did think about this.

    Sage jirayia would escape amaterasu, would not be affected by genjutsu because of the toads on his shoulders and is fast enough to avoid susano'o fost as long as itachi has chakra left. The only way I see Itachi winning is if I can argue that Tsukyiomi is a lot faster than normal genjutsu and itachi can cast it and torture jirayia for a while before the toads are able to detect it. It also depends how fast Itachi's susano'o is. And one more thing: if Itachi activates susano'o and manages to keep it for a while, all Jirayia needs to do is get some distance and have the frogs perform a sound genjutsu. Sage Jirayia is one of the few shinobi that can beat Itachi at full power.
    we have not saw itachi at full power so you cannot say sage jiriaya could beat
    him.
     
         

  23. #73
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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    you dont even know how strong Itachi in good health can even do. :flaw:
    and you don't even know either.. maybe when he was at full health he is weak. and just became all that "powerful" because he mastered EMS, susanoo, tsukoyomi, amaterasu. but in exchange of mastering all of the techniques his health suffer..

    so its either itachi at full health and noob at EMS techs

    or

    itachi at sickness but mastered EMS techs..

    you choose.


    IMO: itachi never really achieved his full potential. pity.
     
         

  24. #74
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    Re: Itachi's full power

    Quote Originally Posted by kam View Post
    we have not saw itachi at full power so you cannot say sage jiriaya could beat
    him.
    I've been defending Itachi for a while now. I can pretty much know when he's faced with a difficult challenge. Jirayia in sage mode can pretty much counter Itachi better than almost any other shinobi. Jirayia in sage mode > Pain btw (with knowledge). And he's a smart and capable fighter. I estimated Itachi at full power almost 3x stronger than Itachi vs Sasuke, but that means more stamina, more chakra, faster movement, etc. No new techs. Sage mode should easily be faster than Itachi so there's an advantage for jirayia right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by khaydz5 View Post
    and you don't even know either.. maybe when he was at full health he is weak. and just became all that "powerful" because he mastered EMS, susanoo, tsukoyomi, amaterasu. but in exchange of mastering all of the techniques his health suffer..

    so its either itachi at full health and noob at EMS techs

    or

    itachi at sickness but mastered EMS techs..

    you choose.


    IMO: itachi never really achieved his full potential. pity.
    1. Itachi doesn't have EMS.
    2. We talked about this. It's hypothetical Itachi at full power = Itachi at full power with his skills intact.
    3. It's funny cause you're both on the same side and you're attacking him. If you were paying attention to what he replied, you wouldn't have been attacking him... that earns you the post of the day. And now I know that you don't really read much just a few lines and quote+post. That's not good debating, that's being selfish and disregarding what everyone else says.
     
         

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