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  1. #21
    The Professor Itachi Namikaze's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnister View Post
    If that's true, then why didn't otachi and kisame want to team up on jiraya? Cause they would have gotten ****ed up. Toad jutsu puts the user on a whole other level. Shikaku states this and he's a friggin genious!
    Um MS puts him on a whole other level too. Pain didn't have senjutsu but he still beat Naruto silly. Itachi didn't want to fight because he was actually a good guy and it was probably just an excuse not to capture Naruto. If you look at the match up though Jiraiya said he was terrible at genjutsu and Itachi was a genjutsu master. Even without Susanoo or Amaterasu Itachi would have won easily. It would be like with Orochimaru, physically Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi but he lost in a minute due to genjutsu and then when he came out of Sasuke he got owned by the sword of Totsuga. So tell me, does Jiraiya have an attack that can break through the Yata mirror, which is able to reflect any attack? Or does he have a defense against Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, or the sword of Totsuga? No if Itachi had more chakra he would be all but invincible because of those weapons and his mastery of genjutsu.
     
         

  2. #22
    Man Utd siyo's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    Tsunade was scared because she doesn't know what Naruto can do. She hasn't seen Kyuubi mode but she has seen Raikage and knows he is strong. Naruto was easily just as fast as Raikage and when A went to kill Naruto, Bee stopped it easily so I'm guessing Naruto could also.

    true, but she is a hokage, which means that if she thinks naruto is in danger,chances are he is.she got a good grip of what naruto can do(Except what he learned with bee) and she feared for his live.Bee stopped him because of his sword,did you forget that thing nulifies everything?Naruto does not have that luxury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    I think you're severely underestimating the nine-tail fox. This beast was supposed to be unstoppable and no one could compete with it and the only way to handle it was to control it. Naruto is now using that beast's chakra. If you're suggesting that a normal person (Raikage) is stronger than 50% of that chakra, then you're clearly overestimating the Raikage.
    again, the raikage is not a NORMAL person,he got beast level chakra(confirmed last week).That means his chakra reserve equals a host.......
    then you have to factor in he is a kage, who obvioulsly knows all the forbidden techs in his village.So yes, i think he could keep up with naruto in his current state.And a 50% weaker version is a lot from the original,so how is he unstoppable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    The best response that isn't bais on this thread
    thx
     
         
    Last edited by siyo; 06-02-2011 at 03:03 AM.

  3. #23
    is carbon based. Ira's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    Um MS puts him on a whole other level too. Pain didn't have senjutsu but he still beat Naruto silly. Itachi didn't want to fight because he was actually a good guy and it was probably just an excuse not to capture Naruto. If you look at the match up though Jiraiya said he was terrible at genjutsu and Itachi was a genjutsu master. Even without Susanoo or Amaterasu Itachi would have won easily. It would be like with Orochimaru, physically Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi but he lost in a minute due to genjutsu and then when he came out of Sasuke he got owned by the sword of Totsuga. So tell me, does Jiraiya have an attack that can break through the Yata mirror, which is able to reflect any attack? Or does he have a defense against Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, or the sword of Totsuga? No if Itachi had more chakra he would be all but invincible because of those weapons and his mastery of genjutsu.

    LOL at the bolded part. Pain had rinnegen- strongest dojotutsu available in the narutoverse. he could use all 6 elements from the age 10 and even use the outer path ... He was an Uzumaki just like Naruto and had Huge Chakra.. His genjutsu was so powerful that to get any info from his minions was a hassels ( Ino's dad got it but not so easily). Itachi said himself said the best he and Kisame and he could do against Jiraiya was that both sides end up dead.
     
         

  4. #24
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post

    again, the raikage is not a NORMAL person,he got beast level chakra(confirmed last week).That means his chakra reserve equals a host.......
    then you have to factor in he is a kage, who obvioulsly knows all the forbidden techs in his village.So yes, i think he could keep up with naruto in his current state.And a 50% weaker version is a lot from the original,so how is he unstoppable?
    He is still a person though, heavily based on taijutsu. He's got beast level chakra, so what? Kisame did as well...how did he do against Naruto?
    And the fact that he is a kage doesn't meanhe knows all the forbidden techs. Do you think Tsunade does? Or Minato did? Doubt it. And even if he would know them, he only uses taijutsu...

    Naruto has control of the fox's chakra, but doesn't mean he uses it all at once. Raikage didn't go full power and neither did naruto. I think the strongest you can assume Raikage is, could be Hachibi's level. And even that's a lot and I don't believe it. How can a person (he is still just a person without any sage mode/jinchuriki abilities/other enhancements) be as strong as the second strongest tailed beast? I'll say it against: you're overestimating Raikage.
     
         

  5. #25
    is carbon based. Ira's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    again, the raikage is not a NORMAL person,he got beast level chakra(confirmed last week).That means his chakra reserve equals a host.......
    then you have to factor in he is a kage, who obvioulsly knows all the forbidden techs in his village.So yes, i think he could keep up with naruto in his current state.And a 50% weaker version is a lot from the original,so how is he unstoppable?

    Naruto is a host and host of nine tail and has it inside him so he is no less powerfull. Naruto underestimated Raikge, because he didn't really believe that Raikage would actually try to kill him or hurt him seriously. But Raikage was underestimating him as well.

    As for Bee I think he understand the situation bettter out of all four people present there as he knows Raikage and understands Naruto to an extent as well as his current power level.

    Raikage will be calmed down- by BEE I think.
     
         
    Last edited by Ira; 06-02-2011 at 03:47 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    Um MS puts him on a whole other level too. Pain didn't have senjutsu but he still beat Naruto silly. Itachi didn't want to fight because he was actually a good guy and it was probably just an excuse not to capture Naruto. If you look at the match up though Jiraiya said he was terrible at genjutsu and Itachi was a genjutsu master. Even without Susanoo or Amaterasu Itachi would have won easily. It would be like with Orochimaru, physically Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi but he lost in a minute due to genjutsu and then when he came out of Sasuke he got owned by the sword of Totsuga. So tell me, does Jiraiya have an attack that can break through the Yata mirror, which is able to reflect any attack? Or does he have a defense against Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, or the sword of Totsuga? No if Itachi had more chakra he would be all but invincible because of those weapons and his mastery of genjutsu.
    Apologies for getting off topic.
    That said, if it was Itachi who suggested that Jirayia was more powerful than both of them I would also be skeptical to the legitimacy of the claim. However, Kisame is the one who mentions it and he, as Itachi's partner knew about two of his three MS techs (at least I don't think he knew about Susanoo).
     
         

  7. #27
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    I totally agree with Siyo (rep), he is the only one making logic sense in my opinion. Idk all these crazy naruto fanboys came from!?! I'm a fan o naruto but some ppl are seriously seeing him as a god and it's pathetic.
     
         

  8. #28
    Man Utd siyo's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    He is still a person though, heavily based on taijutsu. He's got beast level chakra, so what? Kisame did as well...how did he do against Naruto?
    And the fact that he is a kage doesn't meanhe knows all the forbidden techs. Do you think Tsunade does? Or Minato did? Doubt it. And even if he would know them, he only uses taijutsu...

    Naruto has control of the fox's chakra, but doesn't mean he uses it all at once. Raikage didn't go full power and neither did naruto. I think the strongest you can assume Raikage is, could be Hachibi's level. And even that's a lot and I don't believe it. How can a person (he is still just a person without any sage mode/jinchuriki abilities/other enhancements) be as strong as the second strongest tailed beast? I'll say it against: you're overestimating Raikage.
    he is still just a person, but so is naruto unless the nine tails escapes,which then means that naruo will be lost forever,since the fourth isn't there to help him the next time it happens.Every kage gets access to forbidden techs when they become a kage.We found that out, when the third was still alive.
    another thing, which you seem to forget is that hachibi himself said that the only guy who ever beaten him was the raikage,so i don`t know how that is hard to believe.

    well kisame was no weakling,he did tame two beast(if i remember correctly)and he did give big problems to bee(unfortunately his sword failed him).But the problem against naruto was that he was nor fast or strong enough. to handle him in his new fox mode(and guy used taijutsu,which you seem to disapprove of).The raikage is strong(super strenght) and fast enough(fastest man alive) to keep up,and he will not get tired.plus,we have not seen everything the raikage can do.......so i will say it again, you're underestimating the raikage and overestimating naruto's powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by isthatnecessary View Post
    Naruto is a host and host of nine tail and has it inside him so he is no less powerfull. Naruto underestimated Raikge, because he didn't really beleive that Raikage will actually try to kill him or hurt him seriously. But Raikage is underestimating him as well.

    As for Bee I think he understand the situation bettter out of all four people present there as he know Raikage and understand Naruto to an extent as well as his current power level.

    Raikage will be calmed down- by BEE I think.
    i did not mention anything about naruto not being a host,just disputed the fact that the raikage was a normal person.

    but i think you are right,bee will probably get to the raikage and make him understand naruto(or at least deal with him).either that or the thing about zetzu will reach them.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazekev90 View Post
    I totally agree with Siyo (rep), he is the only one making logic sense in my opinion. Idk all these crazy naruto fanboys came from!?! I'm a fan o naruto but some ppl are seriously seeing him as a god and it's pathetic.
    thx, a lot people are dissappointed naruto didn't fit the entire enemy army into his palm of his hands, the exact moment he escaped....Naruto improved a lot but he is not invincible.
     
         

  9. #29
    Member Yondaime Raikage's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Dont hate A raping Naruto like he was nothing...
     
         

  10. #30
    The Byakugan user of NB! Draegod's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    he is still just a person, but so is naruto unless the nine tails escapes,which then means that naruo will be lost forever,since the fourth isn't there to help him the next time it happens.Every kage gets access to forbidden techs when they become a kage.We found that out, when the third was still alive.
    another thing, which you seem to forget is that hachibi himself said that the only guy who ever beaten him was the raikage,so i don`t know how that is hard to believe.

    well kisame was no weakling,he did tame two beast(if i remember correctly)and he did give big problems to bee(unfortunately his sword failed him).But the problem against naruto was that he was nor fast or strong enough. to handle him in his new fox mode(and guy used taijutsu,which you seem to disapprove of).The raikage is strong(super strenght) and fast enough(fastest man alive) to keep up,and he will not get tired.plus,we have not seen everything the raikage can do.......so i will say it again, you're underestimating the raikage and overestimating naruto's powers.



    i did not mention anything about naruto not being a host,just disputed the fact that the raikage was a normal person.

    but i think you are right,bee will probably get to the raikage and make him understand naruto(or at least deal with him).either that or the thing about zetzu will reach them.



    thx, a lot people are dissappointed naruto didn't fit the entire enemy army into his palm of his hands, the exact moment he escaped....Naruto improved a lot but he is not invincible.
    lol yea some ppl are just oblivouse and think that just because naruto has the fox and is the son of the 4th he is unbeatable. its sad realy, i still dont think naruto is stronger then Bee at the moment, but because naruto has the fox ppl thinks hes stronger then everyone (and he doesnt even have full control over the fox..smh)
     
         

  11. #31
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by isthatnecessary View Post
    LOL at the bolded part. Pain had rinnegen- strongest dojotutsu available in the narutoverse. he could use all 6 elements from the age 10 and even use the outer path ... He was an Uzumaki just like Naruto and had Huge Chakra.. His genjutsu was so powerful that to get any info from his minions was a hassels ( Ino's dad got it but not so easily). Itachi said himself said the best he and Kisame and he could do against Jiraiya was that both sides end up dead.
    I like how you just sound like you know nothing, people say things in the manga all the time like 'This person is stronger than so and so' and it rarely turns out to be the truth. If you believe everything that every manga character says then Neji is stronger than Naruto, Orochimaru is immortal, and Kakashi would be a threat to pain ( said by Pain himself but really do any of you think that it's actually true?).

    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.

    Amanwithnoplan
    Apologies for getting off topic.
    That said, if it was Itachi who suggested that Jirayia was more powerful than both of them I would also be skeptical to the legitimacy of the claim. However, Kisame is the one who mentions it and he, as Itachi's partner knew about two of his three MS techs (at least I don't think he knew about Susanoo).
    Actually if you reread it Kisame asks him "Why is retreat necessary for you?" and Itachi says the best they could do was a stalemate. Itachi was the one who said they should leave. Which is most likely because he is a good guy. Don't get me wrong, Jiraiya is insanely strong but he has no defense against any of Itachi's genjutsu or his Susanoo because of it's weapons which repel all attacks and can seal anything it touches. I'm being nicer to you than the guy above though because you weren't rude about it and seem like a nice person.
     
         
    Last edited by Itachi Namikaze; 06-02-2011 at 04:59 AM.

  12. #32
    is carbon based. Ira's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    I like how you just sound like you know nothing, people say things in the manga all the time like 'This person is stronger than so and so' and it rarely turns out to be the truth. If you believe everything that every manga character says then Neji is stronger than Naruto, Orochimaru is immortal, and Kakashi would be a threat to pain ( said by Pain himself but really do any of you think that it's actually true?).

    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.
    And I notice how you skip my whole post and concentrate on the last line and make it all about that. I assume you realised that you had nothing to counter rest of it.

    And it makes a difference who made the comment and at what point of time. Whoever said that Neji was stronger than Naruto said probably when naruto was yet to be recognized. Oro is still immortal if you pay attention- Itachi trapped his soul in eternal genjutsu. He didn't kill him. Oro lives on.

    This thread is not Jiraiya VS Itachi, so no I'm not going to get into more details.

    Actually if you reread it Kisame asks him "Why is retreat necessary for you?" and Itachi says the best they could do was a stalemate. Itachi was the one who said they should leave. Which is most likely because he is a good guy. Don't get me wrong, Jiraiya is insanely strong but he has no defense against any of Itachi's genjutsu or his Susanoo because of it's weapons which repel all attacks and can seal anything it touches. I'm being nicer to you than the guy above though because you weren't rude about it and seem like a nice person.
    I think he was refering to Kisame's statement before Itachi used genjutsu on the woman.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/144/8

    Itachi's reply to Kisame's question about retreat seems genuin enough because Itachi' was panting and his sharingan which usually remains activated always wasn't. Kisame himself hadn't proved of any use against Jiraiya though he had soaked kid Naruto's chakra with Samehada. Not to forget Guy who soon made an appearance as kisame made an escape.. That day itachi's decision to retreat was wise. That's what he said:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/148/7

    Secondly I might have been blunt not rude and I was responding to you comment about pain basically but, whatever..
     
         
    Last edited by Ira; 06-02-2011 at 07:15 AM.

  13. #33
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Yeah u are right naruto would have owned raikages ass!!!
    Yes but seriously naruto was about to use kage bunshin (again??!!) why would one keep doing that (i refer to hi handsign)



    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    I like how you just sound like you know nothing, people say things in the manga all the time like 'This person is stronger than so and so' and it rarely turns out to be the truth. If you believe everything that every manga character says then Neji is stronger than Naruto, Orochimaru is immortal, and Kakashi would be a threat to pain ( said by Pain himself but really do any of you think that it's actually true?).

    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.
    wow dude one thing to say to u !!
    do not i repeat do not underestimate the copy ninja
    if naruto can go from being useless to a rasengan user in 3 days then kakashi who also did all the brain storming to develop the rasenshuriken can very well beat up pain in a few days!!(Ones he understands all of pains abilities it is not always about power thats what the charachters follow when they say that a certain some one is more powerful than some other guy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.
    Same theory goes here u never know what jiraiya might have come up with also in jiraiyas sage mode he cannot fall in a genjutsu since the toads that sit on his shoulder would stop that from hapenning by disturbing jiraiyas chakra and jiraiya also has a powerfull genjutsu in the toad son duet ... We all saw that speed can defeat amaterasu certainly jiraiya would have thought something and lastly about the susano'o it is not exactly a long range weapon so if jiraiya maintains his distance for a while itachi himself would bring out a white flag from under the susano'o indicating defeat.....
    but this is all hypothetical we never would know what they would have and what they would not have done both being intelligent enough i would guess at a stalemate.
     
         
    Last edited by Anduril; 06-02-2011 at 06:10 AM.

  14. #34
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Yondaime Raikage View Post
    Dont hate A raping Naruto like he was nothing...
    oh boy. I will try not to if you promise me you will read this last chapter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    lol yea some ppl are just oblivouse and think that just because naruto has the fox and is the son of the 4th he is unbeatable. its sad realy, i still dont think naruto is stronger then Bee at the moment, but because naruto has the fox ppl thinks hes stronger then everyone (and he doesnt even have full control over the fox..smh)
    Was there ever a moment where we thought heritage was important in this debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    he is still just a person, but so is naruto unless the nine tails escapes,which then means that naruo will be lost forever,since the fourth isn't there to help him the next time it happens.Every kage gets access to forbidden techs when they become a kage.We found that out, when the third was still alive.
    another thing, which you seem to forget is that hachibi himself said that the only guy who ever beaten him was the raikage,so i don`t know how that is hard to believe.

    well kisame was no weakling,he did tame two beast(if i remember correctly)and he did give big problems to bee(unfortunately his sword failed him).But the problem against naruto was that he was nor fast or strong enough. to handle him in his new fox mode(and guy used taijutsu,which you seem to disapprove of).The raikage is strong(super strenght) and fast enough(fastest man alive) to keep up,and he will not get tired.plus,we have not seen everything the raikage can do.......so i will say it again, you're underestimating the raikage and overestimating naruto's powers.
    And you're forgetting that Raikage would have killed himself against Sasuke...Seriously the fight with Sasuke shows Raikage's powers best. He was fast and strong, but couldn't really break a lvl 1 susanoo. And besides that, he is an idiot that constantly underestimates people and just attacks...cause we all know he could have avoided punching through susanoo since he didn't really do much damage and he was the one taking the most damage out of it. I don't think that fox mode is weaker than that version of sasuke. Cause if you come to think of it, Naruto relies heavily on close combat and if he isn't faster that full power raikage (which he have yet to see) and isn't stronger (in your opinion) then EMS Sasuke will mop the floor with Naruto and his fox...
    And I don't think I'm overestimating Naruto's powers at all. It's 50% of the most destructive tailed beast (if you don't count the juubi). That's a lot either way you put it. Of course you can argue that it's only half, but half of that is still more than anyone can handle. And one more thing you're forgetting...apparently naruto surpassed Jirayia and Minato a while ago if we believe the words of those in the manga...and then as soon as he got the fox cloak, he attacked kisame and Bee said it reminded him of the yellow flash or whatever. So Naruto barely learned to control it and was as fast as minato in Bee's eyes, but now you're suggesting that after he's more skilled with it, he cannot surpass the Raikage, just because.
     
         

  15. #35
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    And you're forgetting that Raikage would have killed himself against Sasuke...Seriously the fight with Sasuke shows Raikage's powers best. He was fast and strong, but couldn't really break a lvl 1 susanoo. And besides that, he is an idiot that constantly underestimates people and just attacks...cause we all know he could have avoided punching through susanoo since he didn't really do much damage and he was the one taking the most damage out of it. I don't think that fox mode is weaker than that version of sasuke. Cause if you come to think of it, Naruto relies heavily on close combat and if he isn't faster that full power raikage (which he have yet to see) and isn't stronger (in your opinion) then EMS Sasuke will mop the floor with Naruto and his fox...

    And I don't think I'm overestimating Naruto's powers at all. It's 50% of the most destructive tailed beast (if you don't count the juubi). That's a lot either way you put it. Of course you can argue that it's only half, but half of that is still more than anyone can handle. And one more thing you're forgetting...apparently naruto surpassed Jirayia and Minato a while ago if we believe the words of those in the manga...and then as soon as he got the fox cloak, he attacked kisame and Bee said it reminded him of the yellow flash or whatever. So Naruto barely learned to control it and was as fast as minato in Bee's eyes, but now you're suggesting that after he's more skilled with it, he cannot surpass the Raikage, just because.
    Sorry man, I've been busy or maybe I could've provided more to this argument as you're having to do a solid job () against plenty of solid opposition and holding your own. Albeit, it's a long post from me, so I'm not sure if everything jives with everyone or even anyone, so apologies.

    1A.) The Raikage is not as strong as he was at the Kage summit simply due to the loss of his left hand and some of his forearm (how much? 1%, 5%, ..., I don't know). If Gaara hadn't intervened, he might've died from his own stupidity with only the possibility of taking Sasuke with him. Nothing was guaranteed that his kick would've fully broken through Susanoo, just that the Raikage's leg and perhaps body would end up consumed in Ameratsu, and Darui would be the 5th Raikage.

    1B.) I highly doubt the Raikage held anything back at the the Kage summit (if some are suggesting that) as he had no reason and multiple reasons to go all out. First, he's fighting emotion was fueled by the rage of fighting the person who supposedly captured his "brother" Bee to die by having the Hachibi extracted. Second, Sasuke and his MS were extremely dangerous, and we know that both the Raikage and his guards used specific jutsu to counter Sasuke. For example, a support ninja used a water release to confirm his lightning jutsu, and the Raikage charged his lightning armor shroud to high level in order to be able to body flicker when he saw blood from Ameratsu initiating. As well, every blow he landed on either Sasuke or one of Sasuke's teammates trying to protect him was a killing blow, there weren't really any low or even moderate blows unless to setup Sasuke for a finisher. Further, the Raikage would've gained nothing from holding back against Sasuke. He wanted him dead, and he was clearly intent on doing anything, including loss of limb, to get it done. Thus, he wasn't holding back. If someone thinks otherwise, please explain. I apologize as I've been ill and away.

    2.) Sasuke's power's are always going to be either slightly below/above or equal to Naruto's depending on the specific time point (The whole yin/yang bit from Kishi). For example, the instant Naruto tapped into the Kyuubi at the Valley of End and beat the crap out of Sasuke, Sasuke went from a 2 -> 3 tomoe Sharingan. That's how the story is meant. They'll never be disparately unequal.

    3.) I honestly can't judge Naruto too well right now as we haven't seen as much of his training like we usually do (usually we see him completing different steps, like the senjutsu training). As well, his Kyuubi mode is something totally new to everyone in the manga except the dead younger son of the So6P's who seems to have had something only akin to Naruto's Kyuubi mode. He only wants to fight when it's necessary, which is natural for someone aiming to bring peace and end hate/vengeance.

    Except for one hand sign at the very end before Bee intervened, I didn't see him do anything offensive or defensive (despite recognizing the Raikage's punch beforehand). The only thing he put any effort into was trying to just run past the Raikage. That's it. Naruto doesn't want to hurt anyone, not even the Kyuubi. For him, it's a last resort as seen in this chapter and previously with Nagato.

    I don't even know how much of the Kyuubi's chakra (Remember he sealed what he stole away, so perhaps his speed and other abilities are determined by how much takes from that area) he's using right now. I presume his control is pretty good since he passed those block stacking tasks and is very close to mastering the TBB Rasengan, which if history is any indicator he'll master and use in the next battle. He already had the fourth's speed immediately against after gaining the Kyuubi mode against Kisame, but without the control, so I doubt that training hasn't enhanced his speed beyond that somewhat. I imagine that adding control has to increase speed, simply by increasing efficiency alone. If it hasn't, fine, he and the Raikage are the two fastest people in the manga now that Naruto has demonstrated control against the Raikage.

    4.) Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya (senjutsu, may be further along towards advancing peace, ...) and Minato (FRS, TBB Rasengan, advancing peace,...) in some areas while in others, he still needs to make progress to surpass them. That's obvious. That type of statement by I think Gamakichi, the best toad ever (move aside Donatello), is not meant to be a blanket statement and was made watching Naruto in the heat of combat, not at some forum.

    5A.) Bee has been training with Naruto, and I think he knows how deadly his jutsu are, simply put that's how Naruto was trained by Jiraiya et al. His base jutsu, the Rasengan is a man made TBB. From there it only gets progressively worse and more destructive. His allegiance is torn right now. He's been raised to protect the Raikage, yet his exposure to Naruto has produced that weird ass friendship, "I will die for you" effect on him. Thus, by Bee dying, he could protect both Naruto and the Raikage.

    5B.) Personally, I can only speculate here, but I think Bee knows what Naruto and the Raikage are both able to do if both are serious. We've seen the Raikage already at his most intense against Sasuke, and we know he's a badass.

    I think Bee is concerned for A's safety if he truly forces Naruto to fight him as he can't protect him due to his newly divided allegiance to Naruto (cult no jutsu), otherwise the flashback wouldn't go back to when he was chosen as A's body guard where he was probably trained to die for the Raikage. I think that's the entire purpose of the flashback.

    5C.) Bee's intervening there at the end to remind A that he's there to protect him (Recall he bumped both his natural fist and the Hachibi fist), A the Raikage, and that while Naruto doesn't want to hurt A, he may as he's determined to pass. The only hope is to actually listen to Naruto; otherwise, something bad could happen. I predict Bee'll guarantee Naruto's safety by bumping Naruto's fists with possibly the guarantee of sepuku, and they'll join the war partially.

    6.) Personally, I really like this side of Bee. This is one of the best emotional moments in the manga in some time. I think much much more of him now than I did just 1 issue ago. He becomes more like the J-man, Ero Sennin, with time.

    Peace
     
         
    Last edited by leafeater; 06-02-2011 at 01:55 PM.

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Hmm... Interesting theory.
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    nice theory - spectacular - its just as you said - that why right in the end - bee tells A about whats in his Heart - - -

    i liked that fact that tsunade was shocked - when naruto already knew who his dad was - -

    i wanna see naruto saying that more often "dont talk about my dad"
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Sorry man, I've been busy or maybe I could've provided more to this argument as you're having to do a solid job () against plenty of solid opposition and holding your own. Albeit, it's a long post from me, so I'm not sure if everything jives with everyone or even anyone, so apologies.

    1A.) The Raikage is not as strong as he was at the Kage summit simply due to the loss of his left hand and some of his forearm (how much? 1%, 5%, ..., I don't know). If Gaara hadn't intervened, he might've died from his own stupidity with only the possibility of taking Sasuke with him. Nothing was guaranteed that his kick would've fully broken through Susanoo, just that the Raikage's leg and perhaps body would end up consumed in Ameratsu, and Darui would be the 5th Raikage.

    1B.) I highly doubt the Raikage held anything back at the the Kage summit (if some are suggesting that) as he had no reason and multiple reasons to go all out. First, he's fighting emotion was fueled by the rage of fighting the person who supposedly captured his "brother" Bee to die by having the Hachibi extracted. Second, Sasuke and his MS were extremely dangerous, and we know that both the Raikage and his guards used specific jutsu to counter Sasuke. For example, a support ninja used a water release to confirm his lightning jutsu, and the Raikage charged his lightning armor shroud to high level in order to be able to body flicker when he saw blood from Ameratsu initiating. As well, every blow he landed on either Sasuke or one of Sasuke's teammates trying to protect him was a killing blow, there weren't really any low or even moderate blows unless to setup Sasuke for a finisher. Further, the Raikage would've gained nothing from holding back against Sasuke. He wanted him dead, and he was clearly intent on doing anything, including loss of limb, to get it done. Thus, he wasn't holding back. If someone thinks otherwise, please explain. I apologize as I've been ill and away.

    2.) Sasuke's power's are always going to be either slightly below/above or equal to Naruto's depending on the specific time point (The whole yin/yang bit from Kishi). For example, the instant Naruto tapped into the Kyuubi at the Valley of End and beat the crap out of Sasuke, Sasuke went from a 2 -> 3 tomoe Sharingan. That's how the story is meant. They'll never be disparately unequal.

    3.) I honestly can't judge Naruto too well right now as we haven't seen as much of his training like we usually do (usually we see him completing different steps, like the senjutsu training). As well, his Kyuubi mode is something totally new to everyone in the manga except the dead younger son of the So6P's who seems to have had something only akin to Naruto's Kyuubi mode. He only wants to fight when it's necessary, which is natural for someone aiming to bring peace and end hate/vengeance.

    Except for one hand sign at the very end before Bee intervened, I didn't see him do anything offensive or defensive (despite recognizing the Raikage's punch beforehand). The only thing he put any effort into was trying to just run past the Raikage. That's it. Naruto doesn't want to hurt anyone, not even the Kyuubi. For him, it's a last resort as seen in this chapter and previously with Nagato.

    I don't even know how much of the Kyuubi's chakra (Remember he sealed what he stole away, so perhaps his speed and other abilities are determined by how much takes from that area) he's using right now. I presume his control is pretty good since he passed those block stacking tasks and is very close to mastering the TBB Rasengan, which if history is any indicator he'll master and use in the next battle. He already had the fourth's speed immediately against after gaining the Kyuubi mode against Kisame, but without the control, so I doubt that training hasn't enhanced his speed beyond that somewhat. I imagine that adding control has to increase speed, simply by increasing efficiency alone. If it hasn't, fine, he and the Raikage are the two fastest people in the manga now that Naruto has demonstrated control against the Raikage.

    4.) Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya (senjutsu, may be further along towards advancing peace, ...) and Minato (FRS, TBB Rasengan, advancing peace,...) in some areas while in others, he still needs to make progress to surpass them. That's obvious. That type of statement by I think Gamakichi, the best toad ever (move aside Donatello), is not meant to be a blanket statement and was made watching Naruto in the heat of combat, not at some forum.

    5A.) Bee has been training with Naruto, and I think he knows how deadly his jutsu are, simply put that's how Naruto was trained by Jiraiya et al. His base jutsu, the Rasengan is a man made TBB. From there it only gets progressively worse and more destructive. His allegiance is torn right now. He's been raised to protect the Raikage, yet his exposure to Naruto has produced that weird ass friendship, "I will die for you" effect on him. Thus, by Bee dying, he could protect both Naruto and the Raikage.

    5B.) Personally, I can only speculate here, but I think Bee knows what Naruto and the Raikage are both able to do if both are serious. We've seen the Raikage already at his most intense against Sasuke, and we know he's a badass.

    I think Bee is concerned for A's safety if he truly forces Naruto to fight him as he can't protect him due to his newly divided allegiance to Naruto (cult no jutsu), otherwise the flashback wouldn't go back to when he was chosen as A's body guard where he was probably trained to die for the Raikage. I think that's the entire purpose of the flashback.

    5C.) Bee's intervening there at the end to remind A that he's there to protect him (Recall he bumped both his natural fist and the Hachibi fist), A the Raikage, and that while Naruto doesn't want to hurt A, he may as he's determined to pass. The only hope is to actually listen to Naruto; otherwise, something bad could happen. I predict Bee'll guarantee Naruto's safety by bumping Naruto's fists with possibly the guarantee of sepuku, and they'll join the war partially.

    6.) Personally, I really like this side of Bee. This is one of the best emotional moments in the manga in some time. I think much much more of him now than I did just 1 issue ago. He becomes more like the J-man, Ero Sennin, with time.

    Peace
    *ownage approved*
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Ok some people on both sides comment purely based on who they like more without thinking it out.

    Raikage knowing all forbidden jutsu, and everything from his village, yea right maybe he does but he is most surely not going to use them. We have seen the Raikage at his best against Sasuke, and back then he had all the reasons, hatred and determination to kill Sasuke, if he had a 1 shot kill move he would have definitely used it against Sasuke.
    Raikage is dumb and fights on rage... he doesn't analyse his opponent that much, doesn't come up with a plan... he just likes to headbut everyone.

    About the Raikage vs Bee and the fact that Raikage beat Bee, well of course he did because Bee never had the intention of killing or hurting his brother A, while on the other hand, as proven in the latest chapter, A already made peace with the thought of killing Bee.

    You are underestimating Naruto, we don't know enough about his new power, we have never seen him go on the offensive. We know he is capable of matching Raikage's speed, and just like Bee he doesn't fight with the intention of killing someone.

    And back on topic, the reason why Bee stopped Naruto is because:
    1.He knows this battle is useless, and nothing good can come from it.
    2.He did think that his bro would be injured, and we have seen that he has the duty of protecting him at all costs.
    3.It was in order to protect Naruto from A, which i doubt it... out of everybody he knows the most about naruto's new powers, and if a punch from raikage is enough to kill him... then i am indeed disappointed.
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Sorry man, I've been busy or maybe I could've provided more to this argument as you're having to do a solid job () against plenty of solid opposition and holding your own. Albeit, it's a long post from me, so I'm not sure if everything jives with everyone or even anyone, so apologies.

    1A.) The Raikage is not as strong as he was at the Kage summit simply due to the loss of his left hand and some of his forearm (how much? 1%, 5%, ..., I don't know). If Gaara hadn't intervened, he might've died from his own stupidity with only the possibility of taking Sasuke with him. Nothing was guaranteed that his kick would've fully broken through Susanoo, just that the Raikage's leg and perhaps body would end up consumed in Ameratsu, and Darui would be the 5th Raikage.

    1B.) I highly doubt the Raikage held anything back at the the Kage summit (if some are suggesting that) as he had no reason and multiple reasons to go all out. First, he's fighting emotion was fueled by the rage of fighting the person who supposedly captured his "brother" Bee to die by having the Hachibi extracted. Second, Sasuke and his MS were extremely dangerous, and we know that both the Raikage and his guards used specific jutsu to counter Sasuke. For example, a support ninja used a water release to confirm his lightning jutsu, and the Raikage charged his lightning armor shroud to high level in order to be able to body flicker when he saw blood from Ameratsu initiating. As well, every blow he landed on either Sasuke or one of Sasuke's teammates trying to protect him was a killing blow, there weren't really any low or even moderate blows unless to setup Sasuke for a finisher. Further, the Raikage would've gained nothing from holding back against Sasuke. He wanted him dead, and he was clearly intent on doing anything, including loss of limb, to get it done. Thus, he wasn't holding back. If someone thinks otherwise, please explain. I apologize as I've been ill and away.

    2.) Sasuke's power's are always going to be either slightly below/above or equal to Naruto's depending on the specific time point (The whole yin/yang bit from Kishi). For example, the instant Naruto tapped into the Kyuubi at the Valley of End and beat the crap out of Sasuke, Sasuke went from a 2 -> 3 tomoe Sharingan. That's how the story is meant. They'll never be disparately unequal.

    3.) I honestly can't judge Naruto too well right now as we haven't seen as much of his training like we usually do (usually we see him completing different steps, like the senjutsu training). As well, his Kyuubi mode is something totally new to everyone in the manga except the dead younger son of the So6P's who seems to have had something only akin to Naruto's Kyuubi mode. He only wants to fight when it's necessary, which is natural for someone aiming to bring peace and end hate/vengeance.

    Except for one hand sign at the very end before Bee intervened, I didn't see him do anything offensive or defensive (despite recognizing the Raikage's punch beforehand). The only thing he put any effort into was trying to just run past the Raikage. That's it. Naruto doesn't want to hurt anyone, not even the Kyuubi. For him, it's a last resort as seen in this chapter and previously with Nagato.

    I don't even know how much of the Kyuubi's chakra (Remember he sealed what he stole away, so perhaps his speed and other abilities are determined by how much takes from that area) he's using right now. I presume his control is pretty good since he passed those block stacking tasks and is very close to mastering the TBB Rasengan, which if history is any indicator he'll master and use in the next battle. He already had the fourth's speed immediately against after gaining the Kyuubi mode against Kisame, but without the control, so I doubt that training hasn't enhanced his speed beyond that somewhat. I imagine that adding control has to increase speed, simply by increasing efficiency alone. If it hasn't, fine, he and the Raikage are the two fastest people in the manga now that Naruto has demonstrated control against the Raikage.

    4.) Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya (senjutsu, may be further along towards advancing peace, ...) and Minato (FRS, TBB Rasengan, advancing peace,...) in some areas while in others, he still needs to make progress to surpass them. That's obvious. That type of statement by I think Gamakichi, the best toad ever (move aside Donatello), is not meant to be a blanket statement and was made watching Naruto in the heat of combat, not at some forum.

    5A.) Bee has been training with Naruto, and I think he knows how deadly his jutsu are, simply put that's how Naruto was trained by Jiraiya et al. His base jutsu, the Rasengan is a man made TBB. From there it only gets progressively worse and more destructive. His allegiance is torn right now. He's been raised to protect the Raikage, yet his exposure to Naruto has produced that weird ass friendship, "I will die for you" effect on him. Thus, by Bee dying, he could protect both Naruto and the Raikage.

    5B.) Personally, I can only speculate here, but I think Bee knows what Naruto and the Raikage are both able to do if both are serious. We've seen the Raikage already at his most intense against Sasuke, and we know he's a badass.

    I think Bee is concerned for A's safety if he truly forces Naruto to fight him as he can't protect him due to his newly divided allegiance to Naruto (cult no jutsu), otherwise the flashback wouldn't go back to when he was chosen as A's body guard where he was probably trained to die for the Raikage. I think that's the entire purpose of the flashback.

    5C.) Bee's intervening there at the end to remind A that he's there to protect him (Recall he bumped both his natural fist and the Hachibi fist), A the Raikage, and that while Naruto doesn't want to hurt A, he may as he's determined to pass. The only hope is to actually listen to Naruto; otherwise, something bad could happen. I predict Bee'll guarantee Naruto's safety by bumping Naruto's fists with possibly the guarantee of sepuku, and they'll join the war partially. 6.) Personally, I really like this side of Bee. This is one of the best emotional moments in the manga in some time. I think much much more of him now than I did just 1 issue ago. He becomes more like the J-man, Ero Sennin, with time.

    Peace

    Word!

    Problem is that a lot of people are impatient to see some flashy fight/fire work ....
     
         

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