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  1. #26
    Senior Member Amanwithnoplan's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    Um MS puts him on a whole other level too. Pain didn't have senjutsu but he still beat Naruto silly. Itachi didn't want to fight because he was actually a good guy and it was probably just an excuse not to capture Naruto. If you look at the match up though Jiraiya said he was terrible at genjutsu and Itachi was a genjutsu master. Even without Susanoo or Amaterasu Itachi would have won easily. It would be like with Orochimaru, physically Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi but he lost in a minute due to genjutsu and then when he came out of Sasuke he got owned by the sword of Totsuga. So tell me, does Jiraiya have an attack that can break through the Yata mirror, which is able to reflect any attack? Or does he have a defense against Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, or the sword of Totsuga? No if Itachi had more chakra he would be all but invincible because of those weapons and his mastery of genjutsu.
    Apologies for getting off topic.
    That said, if it was Itachi who suggested that Jirayia was more powerful than both of them I would also be skeptical to the legitimacy of the claim. However, Kisame is the one who mentions it and he, as Itachi's partner knew about two of his three MS techs (at least I don't think he knew about Susanoo).
     
         

  2. #27
    Premium User blazekev90's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    I totally agree with Siyo (rep), he is the only one making logic sense in my opinion. Idk all these crazy naruto fanboys came from!?! I'm a fan o naruto but some ppl are seriously seeing him as a god and it's pathetic.
     
         

  3. #28
    Man Utd siyo's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    He is still a person though, heavily based on taijutsu. He's got beast level chakra, so what? Kisame did as well...how did he do against Naruto?
    And the fact that he is a kage doesn't meanhe knows all the forbidden techs. Do you think Tsunade does? Or Minato did? Doubt it. And even if he would know them, he only uses taijutsu...

    Naruto has control of the fox's chakra, but doesn't mean he uses it all at once. Raikage didn't go full power and neither did naruto. I think the strongest you can assume Raikage is, could be Hachibi's level. And even that's a lot and I don't believe it. How can a person (he is still just a person without any sage mode/jinchuriki abilities/other enhancements) be as strong as the second strongest tailed beast? I'll say it against: you're overestimating Raikage.
    he is still just a person, but so is naruto unless the nine tails escapes,which then means that naruo will be lost forever,since the fourth isn't there to help him the next time it happens.Every kage gets access to forbidden techs when they become a kage.We found that out, when the third was still alive.
    another thing, which you seem to forget is that hachibi himself said that the only guy who ever beaten him was the raikage,so i don`t know how that is hard to believe.

    well kisame was no weakling,he did tame two beast(if i remember correctly)and he did give big problems to bee(unfortunately his sword failed him).But the problem against naruto was that he was nor fast or strong enough. to handle him in his new fox mode(and guy used taijutsu,which you seem to disapprove of).The raikage is strong(super strenght) and fast enough(fastest man alive) to keep up,and he will not get tired.plus,we have not seen everything the raikage can do.......so i will say it again, you're underestimating the raikage and overestimating naruto's powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by isthatnecessary View Post
    Naruto is a host and host of nine tail and has it inside him so he is no less powerfull. Naruto underestimated Raikge, because he didn't really beleive that Raikage will actually try to kill him or hurt him seriously. But Raikage is underestimating him as well.

    As for Bee I think he understand the situation bettter out of all four people present there as he know Raikage and understand Naruto to an extent as well as his current power level.

    Raikage will be calmed down- by BEE I think.
    i did not mention anything about naruto not being a host,just disputed the fact that the raikage was a normal person.

    but i think you are right,bee will probably get to the raikage and make him understand naruto(or at least deal with him).either that or the thing about zetzu will reach them.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazekev90 View Post
    I totally agree with Siyo (rep), he is the only one making logic sense in my opinion. Idk all these crazy naruto fanboys came from!?! I'm a fan o naruto but some ppl are seriously seeing him as a god and it's pathetic.
    thx, a lot people are dissappointed naruto didn't fit the entire enemy army into his palm of his hands, the exact moment he escaped....Naruto improved a lot but he is not invincible.
     
         

  4. #29
    Member Yondaime Raikage's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Dont hate A raping Naruto like he was nothing...
     
         

  5. #30
    The Byakugan user of NB! Draegod's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    he is still just a person, but so is naruto unless the nine tails escapes,which then means that naruo will be lost forever,since the fourth isn't there to help him the next time it happens.Every kage gets access to forbidden techs when they become a kage.We found that out, when the third was still alive.
    another thing, which you seem to forget is that hachibi himself said that the only guy who ever beaten him was the raikage,so i don`t know how that is hard to believe.

    well kisame was no weakling,he did tame two beast(if i remember correctly)and he did give big problems to bee(unfortunately his sword failed him).But the problem against naruto was that he was nor fast or strong enough. to handle him in his new fox mode(and guy used taijutsu,which you seem to disapprove of).The raikage is strong(super strenght) and fast enough(fastest man alive) to keep up,and he will not get tired.plus,we have not seen everything the raikage can do.......so i will say it again, you're underestimating the raikage and overestimating naruto's powers.



    i did not mention anything about naruto not being a host,just disputed the fact that the raikage was a normal person.

    but i think you are right,bee will probably get to the raikage and make him understand naruto(or at least deal with him).either that or the thing about zetzu will reach them.



    thx, a lot people are dissappointed naruto didn't fit the entire enemy army into his palm of his hands, the exact moment he escaped....Naruto improved a lot but he is not invincible.
    lol yea some ppl are just oblivouse and think that just because naruto has the fox and is the son of the 4th he is unbeatable. its sad realy, i still dont think naruto is stronger then Bee at the moment, but because naruto has the fox ppl thinks hes stronger then everyone (and he doesnt even have full control over the fox..smh)
     
         

  6. #31
    The Professor Itachi Namikaze's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by isthatnecessary View Post
    LOL at the bolded part. Pain had rinnegen- strongest dojotutsu available in the narutoverse. he could use all 6 elements from the age 10 and even use the outer path ... He was an Uzumaki just like Naruto and had Huge Chakra.. His genjutsu was so powerful that to get any info from his minions was a hassels ( Ino's dad got it but not so easily). Itachi said himself said the best he and Kisame and he could do against Jiraiya was that both sides end up dead.
    I like how you just sound like you know nothing, people say things in the manga all the time like 'This person is stronger than so and so' and it rarely turns out to be the truth. If you believe everything that every manga character says then Neji is stronger than Naruto, Orochimaru is immortal, and Kakashi would be a threat to pain ( said by Pain himself but really do any of you think that it's actually true?).

    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.

    Amanwithnoplan
    Apologies for getting off topic.
    That said, if it was Itachi who suggested that Jirayia was more powerful than both of them I would also be skeptical to the legitimacy of the claim. However, Kisame is the one who mentions it and he, as Itachi's partner knew about two of his three MS techs (at least I don't think he knew about Susanoo).
    Actually if you reread it Kisame asks him "Why is retreat necessary for you?" and Itachi says the best they could do was a stalemate. Itachi was the one who said they should leave. Which is most likely because he is a good guy. Don't get me wrong, Jiraiya is insanely strong but he has no defense against any of Itachi's genjutsu or his Susanoo because of it's weapons which repel all attacks and can seal anything it touches. I'm being nicer to you than the guy above though because you weren't rude about it and seem like a nice person.
     
         
    Last edited by Itachi Namikaze; 06-02-2011 at 03:59 AM.

  7. #32
    is carbon based. Ira's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    I like how you just sound like you know nothing, people say things in the manga all the time like 'This person is stronger than so and so' and it rarely turns out to be the truth. If you believe everything that every manga character says then Neji is stronger than Naruto, Orochimaru is immortal, and Kakashi would be a threat to pain ( said by Pain himself but really do any of you think that it's actually true?).

    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.
    And I notice how you skip my whole post and concentrate on the last line and make it all about that. I assume you realised that you had nothing to counter rest of it.

    And it makes a difference who made the comment and at what point of time. Whoever said that Neji was stronger than Naruto said probably when naruto was yet to be recognized. Oro is still immortal if you pay attention- Itachi trapped his soul in eternal genjutsu. He didn't kill him. Oro lives on.

    This thread is not Jiraiya VS Itachi, so no I'm not going to get into more details.

    Actually if you reread it Kisame asks him "Why is retreat necessary for you?" and Itachi says the best they could do was a stalemate. Itachi was the one who said they should leave. Which is most likely because he is a good guy. Don't get me wrong, Jiraiya is insanely strong but he has no defense against any of Itachi's genjutsu or his Susanoo because of it's weapons which repel all attacks and can seal anything it touches. I'm being nicer to you than the guy above though because you weren't rude about it and seem like a nice person.
    I think he was refering to Kisame's statement before Itachi used genjutsu on the woman.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/144/8

    Itachi's reply to Kisame's question about retreat seems genuin enough because Itachi' was panting and his sharingan which usually remains activated always wasn't. Kisame himself hadn't proved of any use against Jiraiya though he had soaked kid Naruto's chakra with Samehada. Not to forget Guy who soon made an appearance as kisame made an escape.. That day itachi's decision to retreat was wise. That's what he said:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/148/7

    Secondly I might have been blunt not rude and I was responding to you comment about pain basically but, whatever..
     
         
    Last edited by Ira; 06-02-2011 at 06:15 AM.

  8. #33
    Anduril's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Yeah u are right naruto would have owned raikages ass!!!
    Yes but seriously naruto was about to use kage bunshin (again??!!) why would one keep doing that (i refer to hi handsign)



    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    I like how you just sound like you know nothing, people say things in the manga all the time like 'This person is stronger than so and so' and it rarely turns out to be the truth. If you believe everything that every manga character says then Neji is stronger than Naruto, Orochimaru is immortal, and Kakashi would be a threat to pain ( said by Pain himself but really do any of you think that it's actually true?).

    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.
    wow dude one thing to say to u !!
    do not i repeat do not underestimate the copy ninja
    if naruto can go from being useless to a rasengan user in 3 days then kakashi who also did all the brain storming to develop the rasenshuriken can very well beat up pain in a few days!!(Ones he understands all of pains abilities it is not always about power thats what the charachters follow when they say that a certain some one is more powerful than some other guy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi Namikaze View Post
    Back to the point though why didn't you post an actual response to how he would beat Itachi? There is no way he possibly could and you know it so you fall onto repeating Itachi when Itachi was a good guy anyway and probably just wanted to get away so he didn't have to capture Naruto.
    Same theory goes here u never know what jiraiya might have come up with also in jiraiyas sage mode he cannot fall in a genjutsu since the toads that sit on his shoulder would stop that from hapenning by disturbing jiraiyas chakra and jiraiya also has a powerfull genjutsu in the toad son duet ... We all saw that speed can defeat amaterasu certainly jiraiya would have thought something and lastly about the susano'o it is not exactly a long range weapon so if jiraiya maintains his distance for a while itachi himself would bring out a white flag from under the susano'o indicating defeat.....
    but this is all hypothetical we never would know what they would have and what they would not have done both being intelligent enough i would guess at a stalemate.
     
         
    Last edited by Anduril; 06-02-2011 at 05:10 AM.

  9. #34
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Yondaime Raikage View Post
    Dont hate A raping Naruto like he was nothing...
    oh boy. I will try not to if you promise me you will read this last chapter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    lol yea some ppl are just oblivouse and think that just because naruto has the fox and is the son of the 4th he is unbeatable. its sad realy, i still dont think naruto is stronger then Bee at the moment, but because naruto has the fox ppl thinks hes stronger then everyone (and he doesnt even have full control over the fox..smh)
    Was there ever a moment where we thought heritage was important in this debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    he is still just a person, but so is naruto unless the nine tails escapes,which then means that naruo will be lost forever,since the fourth isn't there to help him the next time it happens.Every kage gets access to forbidden techs when they become a kage.We found that out, when the third was still alive.
    another thing, which you seem to forget is that hachibi himself said that the only guy who ever beaten him was the raikage,so i don`t know how that is hard to believe.

    well kisame was no weakling,he did tame two beast(if i remember correctly)and he did give big problems to bee(unfortunately his sword failed him).But the problem against naruto was that he was nor fast or strong enough. to handle him in his new fox mode(and guy used taijutsu,which you seem to disapprove of).The raikage is strong(super strenght) and fast enough(fastest man alive) to keep up,and he will not get tired.plus,we have not seen everything the raikage can do.......so i will say it again, you're underestimating the raikage and overestimating naruto's powers.
    And you're forgetting that Raikage would have killed himself against Sasuke...Seriously the fight with Sasuke shows Raikage's powers best. He was fast and strong, but couldn't really break a lvl 1 susanoo. And besides that, he is an idiot that constantly underestimates people and just attacks...cause we all know he could have avoided punching through susanoo since he didn't really do much damage and he was the one taking the most damage out of it. I don't think that fox mode is weaker than that version of sasuke. Cause if you come to think of it, Naruto relies heavily on close combat and if he isn't faster that full power raikage (which he have yet to see) and isn't stronger (in your opinion) then EMS Sasuke will mop the floor with Naruto and his fox...
    And I don't think I'm overestimating Naruto's powers at all. It's 50% of the most destructive tailed beast (if you don't count the juubi). That's a lot either way you put it. Of course you can argue that it's only half, but half of that is still more than anyone can handle. And one more thing you're forgetting...apparently naruto surpassed Jirayia and Minato a while ago if we believe the words of those in the manga...and then as soon as he got the fox cloak, he attacked kisame and Bee said it reminded him of the yellow flash or whatever. So Naruto barely learned to control it and was as fast as minato in Bee's eyes, but now you're suggesting that after he's more skilled with it, he cannot surpass the Raikage, just because.
     
         

  10. #35
    Master Artisan leafeater's Avatar
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    And you're forgetting that Raikage would have killed himself against Sasuke...Seriously the fight with Sasuke shows Raikage's powers best. He was fast and strong, but couldn't really break a lvl 1 susanoo. And besides that, he is an idiot that constantly underestimates people and just attacks...cause we all know he could have avoided punching through susanoo since he didn't really do much damage and he was the one taking the most damage out of it. I don't think that fox mode is weaker than that version of sasuke. Cause if you come to think of it, Naruto relies heavily on close combat and if he isn't faster that full power raikage (which he have yet to see) and isn't stronger (in your opinion) then EMS Sasuke will mop the floor with Naruto and his fox...

    And I don't think I'm overestimating Naruto's powers at all. It's 50% of the most destructive tailed beast (if you don't count the juubi). That's a lot either way you put it. Of course you can argue that it's only half, but half of that is still more than anyone can handle. And one more thing you're forgetting...apparently naruto surpassed Jirayia and Minato a while ago if we believe the words of those in the manga...and then as soon as he got the fox cloak, he attacked kisame and Bee said it reminded him of the yellow flash or whatever. So Naruto barely learned to control it and was as fast as minato in Bee's eyes, but now you're suggesting that after he's more skilled with it, he cannot surpass the Raikage, just because.
    Sorry man, I've been busy or maybe I could've provided more to this argument as you're having to do a solid job () against plenty of solid opposition and holding your own. Albeit, it's a long post from me, so I'm not sure if everything jives with everyone or even anyone, so apologies.

    1A.) The Raikage is not as strong as he was at the Kage summit simply due to the loss of his left hand and some of his forearm (how much? 1%, 5%, ..., I don't know). If Gaara hadn't intervened, he might've died from his own stupidity with only the possibility of taking Sasuke with him. Nothing was guaranteed that his kick would've fully broken through Susanoo, just that the Raikage's leg and perhaps body would end up consumed in Ameratsu, and Darui would be the 5th Raikage.

    1B.) I highly doubt the Raikage held anything back at the the Kage summit (if some are suggesting that) as he had no reason and multiple reasons to go all out. First, he's fighting emotion was fueled by the rage of fighting the person who supposedly captured his "brother" Bee to die by having the Hachibi extracted. Second, Sasuke and his MS were extremely dangerous, and we know that both the Raikage and his guards used specific jutsu to counter Sasuke. For example, a support ninja used a water release to confirm his lightning jutsu, and the Raikage charged his lightning armor shroud to high level in order to be able to body flicker when he saw blood from Ameratsu initiating. As well, every blow he landed on either Sasuke or one of Sasuke's teammates trying to protect him was a killing blow, there weren't really any low or even moderate blows unless to setup Sasuke for a finisher. Further, the Raikage would've gained nothing from holding back against Sasuke. He wanted him dead, and he was clearly intent on doing anything, including loss of limb, to get it done. Thus, he wasn't holding back. If someone thinks otherwise, please explain. I apologize as I've been ill and away.

    2.) Sasuke's power's are always going to be either slightly below/above or equal to Naruto's depending on the specific time point (The whole yin/yang bit from Kishi). For example, the instant Naruto tapped into the Kyuubi at the Valley of End and beat the crap out of Sasuke, Sasuke went from a 2 -> 3 tomoe Sharingan. That's how the story is meant. They'll never be disparately unequal.

    3.) I honestly can't judge Naruto too well right now as we haven't seen as much of his training like we usually do (usually we see him completing different steps, like the senjutsu training). As well, his Kyuubi mode is something totally new to everyone in the manga except the dead younger son of the So6P's who seems to have had something only akin to Naruto's Kyuubi mode. He only wants to fight when it's necessary, which is natural for someone aiming to bring peace and end hate/vengeance.

    Except for one hand sign at the very end before Bee intervened, I didn't see him do anything offensive or defensive (despite recognizing the Raikage's punch beforehand). The only thing he put any effort into was trying to just run past the Raikage. That's it. Naruto doesn't want to hurt anyone, not even the Kyuubi. For him, it's a last resort as seen in this chapter and previously with Nagato.

    I don't even know how much of the Kyuubi's chakra (Remember he sealed what he stole away, so perhaps his speed and other abilities are determined by how much takes from that area) he's using right now. I presume his control is pretty good since he passed those block stacking tasks and is very close to mastering the TBB Rasengan, which if history is any indicator he'll master and use in the next battle. He already had the fourth's speed immediately against after gaining the Kyuubi mode against Kisame, but without the control, so I doubt that training hasn't enhanced his speed beyond that somewhat. I imagine that adding control has to increase speed, simply by increasing efficiency alone. If it hasn't, fine, he and the Raikage are the two fastest people in the manga now that Naruto has demonstrated control against the Raikage.

    4.) Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya (senjutsu, may be further along towards advancing peace, ...) and Minato (FRS, TBB Rasengan, advancing peace,...) in some areas while in others, he still needs to make progress to surpass them. That's obvious. That type of statement by I think Gamakichi, the best toad ever (move aside Donatello), is not meant to be a blanket statement and was made watching Naruto in the heat of combat, not at some forum.

    5A.) Bee has been training with Naruto, and I think he knows how deadly his jutsu are, simply put that's how Naruto was trained by Jiraiya et al. His base jutsu, the Rasengan is a man made TBB. From there it only gets progressively worse and more destructive. His allegiance is torn right now. He's been raised to protect the Raikage, yet his exposure to Naruto has produced that weird ass friendship, "I will die for you" effect on him. Thus, by Bee dying, he could protect both Naruto and the Raikage.

    5B.) Personally, I can only speculate here, but I think Bee knows what Naruto and the Raikage are both able to do if both are serious. We've seen the Raikage already at his most intense against Sasuke, and we know he's a badass.

    I think Bee is concerned for A's safety if he truly forces Naruto to fight him as he can't protect him due to his newly divided allegiance to Naruto (cult no jutsu), otherwise the flashback wouldn't go back to when he was chosen as A's body guard where he was probably trained to die for the Raikage. I think that's the entire purpose of the flashback.

    5C.) Bee's intervening there at the end to remind A that he's there to protect him (Recall he bumped both his natural fist and the Hachibi fist), A the Raikage, and that while Naruto doesn't want to hurt A, he may as he's determined to pass. The only hope is to actually listen to Naruto; otherwise, something bad could happen. I predict Bee'll guarantee Naruto's safety by bumping Naruto's fists with possibly the guarantee of sepuku, and they'll join the war partially.

    6.) Personally, I really like this side of Bee. This is one of the best emotional moments in the manga in some time. I think much much more of him now than I did just 1 issue ago. He becomes more like the J-man, Ero Sennin, with time.

    Peace
     
         
    Last edited by leafeater; 06-02-2011 at 12:55 PM.

  11. #36
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Hmm... Interesting theory.
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    nice theory - spectacular - its just as you said - that why right in the end - bee tells A about whats in his Heart - - -

    i liked that fact that tsunade was shocked - when naruto already knew who his dad was - -

    i wanna see naruto saying that more often "dont talk about my dad"
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Sorry man, I've been busy or maybe I could've provided more to this argument as you're having to do a solid job () against plenty of solid opposition and holding your own. Albeit, it's a long post from me, so I'm not sure if everything jives with everyone or even anyone, so apologies.

    1A.) The Raikage is not as strong as he was at the Kage summit simply due to the loss of his left hand and some of his forearm (how much? 1%, 5%, ..., I don't know). If Gaara hadn't intervened, he might've died from his own stupidity with only the possibility of taking Sasuke with him. Nothing was guaranteed that his kick would've fully broken through Susanoo, just that the Raikage's leg and perhaps body would end up consumed in Ameratsu, and Darui would be the 5th Raikage.

    1B.) I highly doubt the Raikage held anything back at the the Kage summit (if some are suggesting that) as he had no reason and multiple reasons to go all out. First, he's fighting emotion was fueled by the rage of fighting the person who supposedly captured his "brother" Bee to die by having the Hachibi extracted. Second, Sasuke and his MS were extremely dangerous, and we know that both the Raikage and his guards used specific jutsu to counter Sasuke. For example, a support ninja used a water release to confirm his lightning jutsu, and the Raikage charged his lightning armor shroud to high level in order to be able to body flicker when he saw blood from Ameratsu initiating. As well, every blow he landed on either Sasuke or one of Sasuke's teammates trying to protect him was a killing blow, there weren't really any low or even moderate blows unless to setup Sasuke for a finisher. Further, the Raikage would've gained nothing from holding back against Sasuke. He wanted him dead, and he was clearly intent on doing anything, including loss of limb, to get it done. Thus, he wasn't holding back. If someone thinks otherwise, please explain. I apologize as I've been ill and away.

    2.) Sasuke's power's are always going to be either slightly below/above or equal to Naruto's depending on the specific time point (The whole yin/yang bit from Kishi). For example, the instant Naruto tapped into the Kyuubi at the Valley of End and beat the crap out of Sasuke, Sasuke went from a 2 -> 3 tomoe Sharingan. That's how the story is meant. They'll never be disparately unequal.

    3.) I honestly can't judge Naruto too well right now as we haven't seen as much of his training like we usually do (usually we see him completing different steps, like the senjutsu training). As well, his Kyuubi mode is something totally new to everyone in the manga except the dead younger son of the So6P's who seems to have had something only akin to Naruto's Kyuubi mode. He only wants to fight when it's necessary, which is natural for someone aiming to bring peace and end hate/vengeance.

    Except for one hand sign at the very end before Bee intervened, I didn't see him do anything offensive or defensive (despite recognizing the Raikage's punch beforehand). The only thing he put any effort into was trying to just run past the Raikage. That's it. Naruto doesn't want to hurt anyone, not even the Kyuubi. For him, it's a last resort as seen in this chapter and previously with Nagato.

    I don't even know how much of the Kyuubi's chakra (Remember he sealed what he stole away, so perhaps his speed and other abilities are determined by how much takes from that area) he's using right now. I presume his control is pretty good since he passed those block stacking tasks and is very close to mastering the TBB Rasengan, which if history is any indicator he'll master and use in the next battle. He already had the fourth's speed immediately against after gaining the Kyuubi mode against Kisame, but without the control, so I doubt that training hasn't enhanced his speed beyond that somewhat. I imagine that adding control has to increase speed, simply by increasing efficiency alone. If it hasn't, fine, he and the Raikage are the two fastest people in the manga now that Naruto has demonstrated control against the Raikage.

    4.) Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya (senjutsu, may be further along towards advancing peace, ...) and Minato (FRS, TBB Rasengan, advancing peace,...) in some areas while in others, he still needs to make progress to surpass them. That's obvious. That type of statement by I think Gamakichi, the best toad ever (move aside Donatello), is not meant to be a blanket statement and was made watching Naruto in the heat of combat, not at some forum.

    5A.) Bee has been training with Naruto, and I think he knows how deadly his jutsu are, simply put that's how Naruto was trained by Jiraiya et al. His base jutsu, the Rasengan is a man made TBB. From there it only gets progressively worse and more destructive. His allegiance is torn right now. He's been raised to protect the Raikage, yet his exposure to Naruto has produced that weird ass friendship, "I will die for you" effect on him. Thus, by Bee dying, he could protect both Naruto and the Raikage.

    5B.) Personally, I can only speculate here, but I think Bee knows what Naruto and the Raikage are both able to do if both are serious. We've seen the Raikage already at his most intense against Sasuke, and we know he's a badass.

    I think Bee is concerned for A's safety if he truly forces Naruto to fight him as he can't protect him due to his newly divided allegiance to Naruto (cult no jutsu), otherwise the flashback wouldn't go back to when he was chosen as A's body guard where he was probably trained to die for the Raikage. I think that's the entire purpose of the flashback.

    5C.) Bee's intervening there at the end to remind A that he's there to protect him (Recall he bumped both his natural fist and the Hachibi fist), A the Raikage, and that while Naruto doesn't want to hurt A, he may as he's determined to pass. The only hope is to actually listen to Naruto; otherwise, something bad could happen. I predict Bee'll guarantee Naruto's safety by bumping Naruto's fists with possibly the guarantee of sepuku, and they'll join the war partially.

    6.) Personally, I really like this side of Bee. This is one of the best emotional moments in the manga in some time. I think much much more of him now than I did just 1 issue ago. He becomes more like the J-man, Ero Sennin, with time.

    Peace
    *ownage approved*
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Ok some people on both sides comment purely based on who they like more without thinking it out.

    Raikage knowing all forbidden jutsu, and everything from his village, yea right maybe he does but he is most surely not going to use them. We have seen the Raikage at his best against Sasuke, and back then he had all the reasons, hatred and determination to kill Sasuke, if he had a 1 shot kill move he would have definitely used it against Sasuke.
    Raikage is dumb and fights on rage... he doesn't analyse his opponent that much, doesn't come up with a plan... he just likes to headbut everyone.

    About the Raikage vs Bee and the fact that Raikage beat Bee, well of course he did because Bee never had the intention of killing or hurting his brother A, while on the other hand, as proven in the latest chapter, A already made peace with the thought of killing Bee.

    You are underestimating Naruto, we don't know enough about his new power, we have never seen him go on the offensive. We know he is capable of matching Raikage's speed, and just like Bee he doesn't fight with the intention of killing someone.

    And back on topic, the reason why Bee stopped Naruto is because:
    1.He knows this battle is useless, and nothing good can come from it.
    2.He did think that his bro would be injured, and we have seen that he has the duty of protecting him at all costs.
    3.It was in order to protect Naruto from A, which i doubt it... out of everybody he knows the most about naruto's new powers, and if a punch from raikage is enough to kill him... then i am indeed disappointed.
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    Sorry man, I've been busy or maybe I could've provided more to this argument as you're having to do a solid job () against plenty of solid opposition and holding your own. Albeit, it's a long post from me, so I'm not sure if everything jives with everyone or even anyone, so apologies.

    1A.) The Raikage is not as strong as he was at the Kage summit simply due to the loss of his left hand and some of his forearm (how much? 1%, 5%, ..., I don't know). If Gaara hadn't intervened, he might've died from his own stupidity with only the possibility of taking Sasuke with him. Nothing was guaranteed that his kick would've fully broken through Susanoo, just that the Raikage's leg and perhaps body would end up consumed in Ameratsu, and Darui would be the 5th Raikage.

    1B.) I highly doubt the Raikage held anything back at the the Kage summit (if some are suggesting that) as he had no reason and multiple reasons to go all out. First, he's fighting emotion was fueled by the rage of fighting the person who supposedly captured his "brother" Bee to die by having the Hachibi extracted. Second, Sasuke and his MS were extremely dangerous, and we know that both the Raikage and his guards used specific jutsu to counter Sasuke. For example, a support ninja used a water release to confirm his lightning jutsu, and the Raikage charged his lightning armor shroud to high level in order to be able to body flicker when he saw blood from Ameratsu initiating. As well, every blow he landed on either Sasuke or one of Sasuke's teammates trying to protect him was a killing blow, there weren't really any low or even moderate blows unless to setup Sasuke for a finisher. Further, the Raikage would've gained nothing from holding back against Sasuke. He wanted him dead, and he was clearly intent on doing anything, including loss of limb, to get it done. Thus, he wasn't holding back. If someone thinks otherwise, please explain. I apologize as I've been ill and away.

    2.) Sasuke's power's are always going to be either slightly below/above or equal to Naruto's depending on the specific time point (The whole yin/yang bit from Kishi). For example, the instant Naruto tapped into the Kyuubi at the Valley of End and beat the crap out of Sasuke, Sasuke went from a 2 -> 3 tomoe Sharingan. That's how the story is meant. They'll never be disparately unequal.

    3.) I honestly can't judge Naruto too well right now as we haven't seen as much of his training like we usually do (usually we see him completing different steps, like the senjutsu training). As well, his Kyuubi mode is something totally new to everyone in the manga except the dead younger son of the So6P's who seems to have had something only akin to Naruto's Kyuubi mode. He only wants to fight when it's necessary, which is natural for someone aiming to bring peace and end hate/vengeance.

    Except for one hand sign at the very end before Bee intervened, I didn't see him do anything offensive or defensive (despite recognizing the Raikage's punch beforehand). The only thing he put any effort into was trying to just run past the Raikage. That's it. Naruto doesn't want to hurt anyone, not even the Kyuubi. For him, it's a last resort as seen in this chapter and previously with Nagato.

    I don't even know how much of the Kyuubi's chakra (Remember he sealed what he stole away, so perhaps his speed and other abilities are determined by how much takes from that area) he's using right now. I presume his control is pretty good since he passed those block stacking tasks and is very close to mastering the TBB Rasengan, which if history is any indicator he'll master and use in the next battle. He already had the fourth's speed immediately against after gaining the Kyuubi mode against Kisame, but without the control, so I doubt that training hasn't enhanced his speed beyond that somewhat. I imagine that adding control has to increase speed, simply by increasing efficiency alone. If it hasn't, fine, he and the Raikage are the two fastest people in the manga now that Naruto has demonstrated control against the Raikage.

    4.) Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya (senjutsu, may be further along towards advancing peace, ...) and Minato (FRS, TBB Rasengan, advancing peace,...) in some areas while in others, he still needs to make progress to surpass them. That's obvious. That type of statement by I think Gamakichi, the best toad ever (move aside Donatello), is not meant to be a blanket statement and was made watching Naruto in the heat of combat, not at some forum.

    5A.) Bee has been training with Naruto, and I think he knows how deadly his jutsu are, simply put that's how Naruto was trained by Jiraiya et al. His base jutsu, the Rasengan is a man made TBB. From there it only gets progressively worse and more destructive. His allegiance is torn right now. He's been raised to protect the Raikage, yet his exposure to Naruto has produced that weird ass friendship, "I will die for you" effect on him. Thus, by Bee dying, he could protect both Naruto and the Raikage.

    5B.) Personally, I can only speculate here, but I think Bee knows what Naruto and the Raikage are both able to do if both are serious. We've seen the Raikage already at his most intense against Sasuke, and we know he's a badass.

    I think Bee is concerned for A's safety if he truly forces Naruto to fight him as he can't protect him due to his newly divided allegiance to Naruto (cult no jutsu), otherwise the flashback wouldn't go back to when he was chosen as A's body guard where he was probably trained to die for the Raikage. I think that's the entire purpose of the flashback.

    5C.) Bee's intervening there at the end to remind A that he's there to protect him (Recall he bumped both his natural fist and the Hachibi fist), A the Raikage, and that while Naruto doesn't want to hurt A, he may as he's determined to pass. The only hope is to actually listen to Naruto; otherwise, something bad could happen. I predict Bee'll guarantee Naruto's safety by bumping Naruto's fists with possibly the guarantee of sepuku, and they'll join the war partially. 6.) Personally, I really like this side of Bee. This is one of the best emotional moments in the manga in some time. I think much much more of him now than I did just 1 issue ago. He becomes more like the J-man, Ero Sennin, with time.

    Peace

    Word!

    Problem is that a lot of people are impatient to see some flashy fight/fire work ....
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    And you're forgetting that Raikage would have killed himself against Sasuke...Seriously the fight with Sasuke shows Raikage's powers best. He was fast and strong, but couldn't really break a lvl 1 susanoo. And besides that, he is an idiot that constantly underestimates people and just attacks...cause we all know he could have avoided punching through susanoo since he didn't really do much damage and he was the one taking the most damage out of it. I don't think that fox mode is weaker than that version of sasuke. Cause if you come to think of it, Naruto relies heavily on close combat and if he isn't faster that full power raikage (which he have yet to see) and isn't stronger (in your opinion) then EMS Sasuke will mop the floor with Naruto and his fox...
    And I don't think I'm overestimating Naruto's powers at all. It's 50% of the most destructive tailed beast (if you don't count the juubi). That's a lot either way you put it. Of course you can argue that it's only half, but half of that is still more than anyone can handle. And one more thing you're forgetting...apparently naruto surpassed Jirayia and Minato a while ago if we believe the words of those in the manga...and then as soon as he got the fox cloak, he attacked kisame and Bee said it reminded him of the yellow flash or whatever. So Naruto barely learned to control it and was as fast as minato in Bee's eyes, but now you're suggesting that after he's more skilled with it, he cannot surpass the Raikage, just because.

    Again, sasuke is not naruto and vice versa.Sasuke had susano which he could hide behind,when he quickly found out the raikage was faster(even with the sharingan) and stronger(broke the ribs of lvl 1 susano) than him.The guy, avoided the thing which people thought was impossible to dodge(on pure speed).Was it smart of the raikage to keep attacking sasuke? obviously not, he could have just waited till sasuke lost his patience(which he had none of in his evil state) but the thing is, he thought his "brother" was murdered by sasuke so he was filled with rage and wanted him to pay, which is btw a natural reaction, and a completely different scenerio from the naruto confrontation....
    unlike sasuke, naruto does not have an invincible shield so it would be a completely different fight.Naruto tactics is heavily based on taijutsu, which the raikage specializes in.Nobody can question the raikage's strenght, and when it comes to speed he is the fastest man out there, where naruto only began learning.
    So, in a fight where the confrontation will consist of strenght,speed and agilty.....who would win?The one who has the experiance in all the fields,and is the leader of the shinobi allience, or the inexperianced one, who has the potential to be the greatest(and fastest/strongest) but who has not reached that goal yet.And 50%, no matter how you look at it,is a watered down version which can't be compared to the original.
    you got to read everything in context,naruto did surpass the fourth when it came to the rasengan ,since minato never completed the full form.And he is on his way to surpass him in speed too. jiraiya never truly mastered sage mode, and naruto did so the frogs naturally says that he surpassed him.

    you have to be able to differenciate between potential, and what naruto can do now.Not 5 years from now.....
     
         
    Last edited by siyo; 06-02-2011 at 06:19 PM.

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    Again, sasuke is not naruto and vice versa.Sasuke had susano which he could hide behind,when he quickly found out the raikage was faster(even with the sharingan) and stronger(broke the ribs of lvl 1 susano) than him.The guy, avoided the thing which people thought was impossible to dodge(on pure speed).Was it smart of the raikage to keep attacking sasuke? obviously not, he could have just waited till sasuke lost his patience(which he had none of in his evil state) but the thing is, he thought his "brother" was murdered by sasuke so he was filled with rage and wanted him to pay, which is btw a natural reaction, and a completely different scenerio from the naruto confrontation....
    unlike sasuke, naruto does not have an invincible shield so it would be a completely different fight.Naruto tactics is heavily based on taijutsu, which the raikage specializes in.Nobody can question the raikage's strenght, and when it comes to speed he is the fastest man out there, where naruto only began learning.
    So, in a fight where the confrontation will consist of strenght,speed and agilty.....who would win?The one who has the experiance in all the fields,and is the leader of the shinobi allience, or the inexperianced one, who has the potential to be the greatest(and fastest/strongest) but who has not reached that goal yet.And 50%, no mater how you look at it,is a watered down version which can't be compared to the original.
    you got to read everything in context,naruto did surpass the fourth when it came to the rasengan ,since minato never completed the full form.And he is on his way to surpass him in speed too. jiraiya never truly mastered sage mode, and naruto did so the frogs naturally says that he surpassed him.

    you have to be able to differentiate between potential, and what naruto can do now.Not 5 years from now.....
    "The guy, avoided the thing which people thought was impossible to dodge(on pure speed)" - are you talking about amaterasu? Cause I don't think it fits the description. It was never amaterasu's thing to be fast, but rather to be destructive.

    Sasuke held his own against Raikage. He wasn't fast enough though, but naruto is. Speed+strength is naruto's thing. I don't know how you got the idea that Raikage is faster than naruto but I would appreciate it if you shared it with me so that I can try to understand your reasoning.
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    Again, sasuke is not naruto and vice versa.Sasuke had susano which he could hide behind,when he quickly found out the raikage was faster(even with the sharingan) and stronger(broke the ribs of lvl 1 susano) than him.The guy, avoided the thing which people thought was impossible to dodge(on pure speed).Was it smart of the raikage to keep attacking sasuke? obviously not, he could have just waited till sasuke lost his patience(which he had none of in his evil state) but the thing is, he thought his "brother" was murdered by sasuke so he was filled with rage and wanted him to pay, which is btw a natural reaction, and a completely different scenerio from the naruto confrontation....
    unlike sasuke, naruto does not have an invincible shield so it would be a completely different fight.Naruto tactics is heavily based on taijutsu, which the raikage specializes in.Nobody can question the raikage's strenght, and when it comes to speed he is the fastest man out there, where naruto only began learning.
    So, in a fight where the confrontation will consist of strenght,speed and agilty.....who would win?The one who has the experiance in all the fields,and is the leader of the shinobi allience, or the inexperianced one, who has the potential to be the greatest(and fastest/strongest) but who has not reached that goal yet.And 50%, no matter how you look at it,is a watered down version which can't be compared to the original.
    you got to read everything in context,naruto did surpass the fourth when it came to the rasengan ,since minato never completed the full form.And he is on his way to surpass him in speed too. jiraiya never truly mastered sage mode, and naruto did so the frogs naturally says that he surpassed him.

    you have to be able to differenciate between potential, and what naruto can do now.Not 5 years from now.....
    bruh i wouldnt bother arguing with anybody in this thread. because some of them are to ignorant to see both saides and do not like the raikage. it is obvious that anub doesnt like the raikage for what ever reason (its a cartoon, not that serius) and even if kishi says that the raikage would win, he would still deny it and will never give the man credit. its like talking to a wall! this thread isnt suppose to be this serius considering raikage:
    1)has one hand
    2)and he isnt in full power mode
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    "The guy, avoided the thing which people thought was impossible to dodge(on pure speed)" - are you talking about amaterasu? Cause I don't think it fits the description. It was never amaterasu's thing to be fast, but rather to be destructive..
    understatement of the year.......amaterasu was said to be unavoidible and as soon as the user connect with the enemy, he emerses inflames.Gaara did it with ultimate defense, at long range,and The raikage did it at close range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Sasuke held his own against Raikage. He wasn't fast enough though, but naruto is. Speed+strength is naruto's thing. I don't know how you got the idea that Raikage is faster than naruto but I would appreciate it if you shared it with me so that I can try to understand your reasoning.
    did i say otherwise? sasuke is naruto's ultimate rival(or one of) you brought in sasuke, when you tried to mix that match with the naruto one.I would like you to share with me naruto's susano(or other invincible defenses) since you made the comparison (to what sasuke did in that fight)...i can play that game too.....
    we don`t know if naruto is slower than the raikage, but we do know that the raikage can boost his speed(fact).With naruto we don' t know, so logically the fastest guy we IS still the reigning speeding champ.


    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    bruh i wouldnt bother arguing with anybody in this thread. because some of them are to ignorant to see both saides and do not like the raikage. it is obvious that anub doesnt like the raikage for what ever reason (its a cartoon, not that serius) and even if kishi says that the raikage would win, he would still deny it and will never give the man credit. its like talking to a wall! this thread isnt suppose to be this serius considering raikage:
    1)has one hand
    2)and he isnt in full power mode
    i am beginning to feel that i AM hitting a wall :flaw: counterarguing after conuteraguing, without the acknowledgement of when your facts(or some of them) are wrong or has been disputed....

    btw, i got no problem with people disagreeing with me, as long as they can give and take(plus get their facts from the manga),or make it clear that they are speculating....
     
         
    Last edited by siyo; 06-02-2011 at 08:33 PM.

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    He stopped Raikage because he knew Naruto would kick his Ass, and he didnt want his brother the Great raikage to be seen knocked on his ass infront of the hokage by a Genin!!

    even though his just an anime character, I Truly hate raikage....
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    true, but she is a hokage, which means that if she thinks naruto is in danger,chances are he is.she got a good grip of what naruto can do(Except what he learned with bee) and she feared for his live.Bee stopped him because of his sword,did you forget that thing nulifies everything?Naruto does not have that luxury.



    again, the raikage is not a NORMAL person,he got beast level chakra(confirmed last week).That means his chakra reserve equals a host.......
    then you have to factor in he is a kage, who obvioulsly knows all the forbidden techs in his village.So yes, i think he could keep up with naruto in his current state.And a 50% weaker version is a lot from the original,so how is he unstoppable?


    thx
    Your first comment does not make sense u are making it seem that nine tails mode is nothing special and you keep saying that the raikage has beast level chakra and the fact that he is also really strong, I agree with it but naruto is not some random ninja he already knows sage mode and rasen shruken. What he learned from bee just makes him much stronger you really think he won't be able to on the raikage and just to let you not all kages know all the forbidden techs of their village, that is a bad assumption.
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    bruh i wouldnt bother arguing with anybody in this thread. because some of them are to ignorant to see both saides and do not like the raikage. it is obvious that anub doesnt like the raikage for what ever reason (its a cartoon, not that serius) and even if kishi says that the raikage would win, he would still deny it and will never give the man credit. its like talking to a wall! this thread isnt suppose to be this serius considering raikage:
    1)has one hand
    2)and he isnt in full power mode
    I hate raikage because he's just a bad character. He's got fans mostly because he seems badass or whatever. But the truth is that he is a one-dimensional character, with 0 development so far and hasn't impressed me a bit. He got angry when bee got taken away, acted overly manly in front of naruto when he begged him to save sasuke and then he turns around on his own team and wants to kill him...the fact that madara might get his hands on naruto is not a good enough reason to kill him...why not beat him to the point that he cannot do anything on his own? If he's that strong he should be able to do that no problem. Naruto planned on doing the same thing with sasuke...

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post
    understatement of the year.......amaterasu was said to be unavoidible and as soon as the user connect with the enemy, he emerses inflames.Gaara did it with ultimate defense, at long range,and The raikage did it at close range.
    link pls where it says it. Cause I really don't remember. See, I was thinking that it depends on the user. Ever thought that Itachi's amaterasu might have a different speed+range+power because he had more practice with it? It's true Sasuke could manipulate it better, but I don't think Sasuke's amaterasu is the best example you can give here.



    did i say otherwise? sasuke is naruto's ultimate rival(or one of) you brought in sasuke, when you tried to mix that match with the naruto one.I would like you to share with me naruto's susano(or other invincible defenses) since you made the comparison (to what sasuke did in that fight)...i can play that game too.....
    we don`t know if naruto is slower than the raikage, but we do know that the raikage can boost his speed(fact).With naruto we don' t know, so logically the fastest guy we IS still the reigning speeding champ.
    Now you're just acting like you're desperate. Let's try and use logic again:

    A.We saw naruto switch to a higher speed at will without breaking a sweat.
    B.We know that naruto was not taking the fight seriously (at least until he got angry at A)

    from A and B => (1) naruto can go faster or (2) naruto was at his fastest?

    you can pick.

    i am beginning to feel that i AM hitting a wall :flaw: counterarguing after conuteraguing, without the acknowledgement of when your facts(or some of them) are wrong or has been disputed....

    btw, i got no problem with people disagreeing with me, as long as they can give and take(plus get their facts from the manga),or make it clear that they are speculating....
    You are not using facts from the manga omg...what you are saying are not facts. You are saying that we saw naruto move at the same speed as raikage and we know that raikage can go up a level. But that's it. Nowhere in the manga does it say that Naruto was at his fastest. We do know though that Naruto attacked Kisame as soon as he got the cloak and Bee only saw a yellow flash. The same bee that was quick and strong enough to stop Raikage's attack that you claim was at equal (or even higher) level to naruto's speed. That, my friend, is not a fact. You're just assuming that naruto can only go so far and you will be proven wrong within the next chapters. Also, on a side note, why did you not reply to leafeater? I believe he pretty much covered every aspect of this debate, yet you decide to only counter me.
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    bruh i wouldnt bother arguing with anybody in this thread. because some of them are to ignorant to see both saides and do not like the raikage.
    Read your quote and see if it makes sense. The first sentence says not to argue with anyone because your second sentence says only some of the posters are biased.

    View me as you will, and feel free to disagree; however, I feel I delivered a fair statement. Please don't use blanket statements since they almost never hold up. Sure some people are biased, others want to pick a fight, but you should try to see the good. What you described can be found in nearly every thread on any forum.

    Peace
     
         
    Last edited by leafeater; 06-02-2011 at 09:46 PM.

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by simonsez0800 View Post
    naruto would have got kill
    i dont think so
     
         

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    Re: Reason why Bee stopped Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by arv993 View Post
    Your first comment does not make sense u are making it seem that nine tails mode is nothing special and you keep saying that the raikage has beast level chakra and the fact that he is also really strong, I agree with it but naruto is not some random ninja he already knows sage mode and rasen shruken. What he learned from bee just makes him much stronger you really think he won't be able to on the raikage and just to let you not all kages know all the forbidden techs of their village, that is a bad assumption.
    omg, where the hell do i say naruto is weak??? if you read the entire thread you would notice, i say several times, that naruto has improved and that he got the potential to be the greatest ever.The quote just says that the hokage knows what she is talking about.I am just focusing on the raikage because he is being underestimated, so naturally it is from his point of view and what he can do against naruto...duh

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    I hate raikage because he's just a bad character. He's got fans mostly because he seems badass or whatever. But the truth is that he is a one-dimensional character, with 0 development so far and hasn't impressed me a bit. He got angry when bee got taken away, acted overly manly in front of naruto when he begged him to save sasuke and then he turns around on his own team and wants to kill him...the fact that madara might get his hands on naruto is not a good enough reason to kill him...why not beat him to the point that he cannot do anything on his own? If he's that strong he should be able to do that no problem. Naruto planned on doing the same thing with sasuke...
    LOL so you're basically admiting that you are biased? could have spared me the time.......so nothing will obviously convince you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    link pls where it says it. Cause I really don't remember. See, I was thinking that it depends on the user. Ever thought that Itachi's amaterasu might have a different speed+range+power because he had more practice with it? It's true Sasuke could manipulate it better, but I don't think Sasuke's amaterasu is the best example you can give here.
    lol, now you don't remember? You sounded pretty convincing before.....
    but will help you out....http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/16
    it also says so in databbok 3 that the move is unavoidible, so i was right, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Now you're just acting like you're desperate. Let's try and use logic again:

    A.We saw naruto switch to a higher speed at will without breaking a sweat.
    B.We know that naruto was not taking the fight seriously (at least until he got angry at A)

    from A and B => (1) naruto can go faster or (2) naruto was at his fastest?

    you can pick.
    fact is naruto wanted to pass the raikage with force and was shocked he couldn't so shocked in fact that he pleaded with tsunade(something he did not do before).True or not? he said himself he needed to be faster even though the raikage did not boost his level yet(as we saw against sasuke). So i am speaking with logic and you are speculating.You're hoping that naruto does something we haven't seen yet...(big difference).Could naruto pull of something? sure but we have not seen it........
    you did not answer my question about sasuke.....avoiding it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    You are not using facts from the manga omg...what you are saying are not facts. You are saying that we saw naruto move at the same speed as raikage and we know that raikage can go up a level. But that's it. Nowhere in the manga does it say that Naruto was at his fastest. We do know though that Naruto attacked Kisame as soon as he got the cloak and Bee only saw a yellow flash. The same bee that was quick and strong enough to stop Raikage's attack that you claim was at equal (or even higher) level to naruto's speed. That, my friend, is not a fact. You're just assuming that naruto can only go so far and you will be proven wrong within the next chapters. Also, on a side note, why did you not reply to leafeater? I believe he pretty much covered every aspect of this debate, yet you decide to only counter me.
    again selecting reading.......()

    facts:
    1: the hachibi used a sword which eats chakra,so it nulifies everything
    2.Raikage got super strenght(broke lvl1 susano ribs,destroyed zetzu,and naruto said he would have been done if he did not block his attack)
    3:chakra levels equals a host
    4:incredible speed which we saw against sasuke and he is the fastest after minato.
    5.Survived several encounters with the fourth hokage
    6 the raikage wanted to stop not kill naruto and he succeded(for the moment),he only went for the "kill" in the end when it was stopped.

    am i missing something? i base my assumptions on things said and done in the manga and not what we have yet to see.........


    btw, i can't respond to everyone who disagrees with me,so logically i answers to people who reply or the maker of the thread(in most cases).But i did read what he said and makes some good points, but nothing which dispute what i am saying(unless i missed something)....He is speculating on stuff i can't prove or disprove.
     
         
    Last edited by siyo; 06-02-2011 at 11:00 PM.

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