Re: Sasuke doesn't have Tsukiyomi
Originally Posted by NarutoKage2
damn i cant believe how dumb you get after each comment.. seriously how old are you?
i was not talking about in the past i was talking about in the present. because when you or anyone claim that Sasuke "does not have Tsukiyomi" i understand that when he used it on Bee and Danzo is argueable. i understand how the past can be debated on but i dont understand how if Sasuke now has Itachi eyes than how could one say that Sasuke cant use Tsukiyomi or doesnt have it?
so no you didnt answer my question. i applaud you on answering around it but i am shocked at how dumb you looked by doing so..... so let me ask again and rephrase...........
now that Sasuke has Itachi's eyes, and Itachis eyes were able to use Tsukiyomi and control space and time, then how is it that Sasuke "doesnt have Tsukiyomi?"
Transplanting his brothers eyes did'nt give Sasuke ALL of Itachi's abilities, or are you going to say he also has yata mirror and totsuka blade?
totsuka blade and yata mirror arent abilities, jutsus or techniques. they are weapons.....
and yes i will argue that Sasuke did recieve the sword and shield just because Itachi had them in his possesion within his eyes, and assuming that no one, like Tobi or Kabuto, took the weapons before the eyes were transplanted than yes i will say that until proven wrong by the manga, Sasuke has both the blade and mirror within his possesion.
im glad you came to this point cuz i was going to come to it too and i see where youre going with this.... its not so much potential, its chakra reserve and stamina..
But more importantly, there is a difference in how the potential is utilized for each individual. So even if Sasuke has the same potential
as Itachi in so far as abilities go, it does'nt mean he can or has been able to utilize that potential. This is why he does have genjutsu in his sharingan eye(itachi's eye) but he does'nt have the same skill with casting illusions to make an illusion strong enough to become a tsukuyomi. (Tsukuyomi= a specific type of illusion).
first off yes, Sasuke can use everything that Itachi's eyes were able to do. why? because Itachi's eyes is in Sasuke's eye sockets.
second the only thing stopping Sasuke from utilizing Itachi's full "potential" as you pointed out is stamina and chakra reserves. MS techniques like tsukiyomi, amateratsu and sasunoo take out a bunch of chakra. not only that but they deteriorate the eyes and lifespan of the user. with ems the eyes dont deteriorate, im pretty sure the body neither, but still those jutsu burn stamina and chakra like a Hummer burns gas. so if anything is stopping Sasuke using Tsukiyomi and controlling space and time it is if he has enough chakra to do so.
and if you look a few posts above, eyesofthekyuubi made a great point, (i think hes the only one who brought this up too) that in ch.585 Sasuke may have not used Tsukiyomi just cuz he didnt want to burn up his chakra. so people concluding that he doesnt have Tsukiyomi becuase of "genjutsu sharingan" dont have a solid arguement because a simple explanation is that Sasuke just didnt want to use chakra. Itachi in the other hand is an edo and chakra for him is practically unlimited.
but anyways yes Sasuke can use everything that Itachi was able to do with his eyes. when Danzo, Madara and Yamato receieved Hashiramas dna they were able to do wood jutsu. Danzo and Yamato werent as good as the original because of their stamina and chakra limitations. Madara has a bunch of chakra and is skilled as fuk and he practically is showing of the 1st jutsus.
to say Sasuke cant use all of Itachis MS jutsus is a foolish and noobish arguement.
i explained this over and over and over and over.........
And how the hell is Danzo implying that Sasuke uses tsukuyomi? Are you that dense? Even a 7th grade kid can see that what Danzo said is that Sasuke's genjutsu, GENJUTSU(notice how Danzo called it an 'illusion') is nothing compared to Itachi's tsukuyomi. Itachi's tsukuyomi, meaning the specific type of illusion that Itachi used. Sasuke also used an illusion, but it was'nt anything compared to the level of illusions Itachi could use. Tsukuyomi was a high level illusion tech used by Itachi
if an illusion were way below that level it obviously is'nt tsukuyomi, which by definition is a high level illusion.
like you said Danzo said Sasukes genjutsu is genjutsu. do you know what that means? genjutsu is "illusion technique". or like oyu said illusion. Sasuke used an illusion on Danzo. now what is Tsukiyomi? it is also an illusion technique. so Danzo did not say Sasuke didnt use Tsukiyomi, he just said that he used an illusion.
now this illusion that Sasuke used, what could it be? every technique has a name. and by technique i mean jutsu (technique=jutsu). "leaf whirlwind kick" by Rock Lee is the name of a specific taijutsu, "chidori" by Sasuke is a name of a ninjutsu and "sage mode" is even the name of a type of senjutsu. what im getting at is us using our common sense and putting all the clues together to figure out what was the name of the genjutsu Sasuke used on Danzo.
1st of the genjutsu was used by the right eye of Sasuke's ms. we know by example of Itachi that amaterasu and tsukiyomi are both ms techniques and used on separate eyes. amaterasu is used on Sasuke's left eye so hypothetically speaking if Sasuke had Tsukiyomi it would be used by his right ms eye
2nd there was a black and white background. not at first but eventually there was and there is always a black and white backgorund when using Tsukiyomi
last two panels on the bottom left: black and white because Sasuke used a genjutsu on Danzo. note also the emphasis on Sasukes right ms eye, like i mention in the 1st clue.
bottom panel right corner. Danzo looking at his hand so the panel is from the perspective of Danzo. everything is black and white for him.
3rd Danzo and Tobi are comparing Sasukes genjutsu that is not named to Itachi's Tsukiyomi saying that Itachi's Tsukiyomi could control space and time and that compared to Itachi's, Sasukes genjutsu is weak. if you had any basic level of reading comprehension than you would see that Danzo and Tobi are practically saying "Sasuke has Tsukiyomi"
i will explain... do not get lost cuz this is crucial and i will not elaborate it in this way again cuz i have done this too many times now. for a whole week ive been explaining this.
Danzo- "congratulations on casting an illusion [genjutsu (because genjutsu = illusion technique)] on me but, thats nothing compared to Itachi's Tsukiyomi, which could control the length of the illusion" (genjutsu)
from what Danzo said we know for a fact that Sasuke used a genjutsu. obvious is obvious. and this genjutsu was used by Sasukes left ms eye which would hypothetically be his Tsukiyomi eye since his amaterasu eye is his right.
now to figure out exactly what that genjutsu is because we dont have a name and every technique or jutsu has a name. using contect clues we see that Danzo refers to "Itachi's Tsukiyomi". Danzo describes "Itachi's Tsukiyomi" as being able to control length. with this alone you can logically infer that Itachi because Itachi was able to control length of Tsukiyomi, Tsukiyomi originally cant have length controlled. we all know Itachi was a genius and genjutsu master, he can trap you in genjutsu by pointing a finger for chirst sake so it is very plausible to conclude that Tsukiyomi is not a genjutsu you can control time and space unless you are efficient at using genjutsu, which Itachi is. if the illusion Sasuke used on Danzo could not control space and time, it can still be Tsukiyomi because Sasuke is just not good at using genjutsus like Itachi is. just like how Sasuke is better at ninjutsus than Itachi is because he can manipulate amaterasu while Itachi cant but Itachi can manipulate Tsukiyomi while Sasuke cant.
lastly to break down Danzos comment, is this crucial part "which could control the length of the illusion.".... Danzo mentions illlusions 3 times in that 1 sentecne. first he says "congrats in putting me in an illusion" then "Itachi's Tsukiyomi" last "which could the length of the illusion". the first mention of illusion is an unnamed genjutsu. we have to use the rest of the sentence to figure out what it is. he compares the unnamed to Itachi's Tsukiyomi. mind you he doesnt compare it to the technique Tsukiyomi in general, he compares it to specifically Itachi's Tsukiyomi. why? because not every ms user is the same and not every Tsukiyomi is the same like not every sage mode is the same (jiraiya didnt have full master, naruto and kabuto has dragon sage but yet they all use sage mode). Danzo describes Itachi's Tsukiyomi as being able to control length of "the illusion". the 3rd illusion ties in the first unnamed illusion and Itachi's Tsukiyomi. the 3rd mention of illusion at the end "the illusion" is the same as the unnamed "illusion" in the beginning. Danzo is basically saying "good job putting me in Tsukiyomi Sasuke, but Itachi's versoin of Tsukiyomi was able to control the time and space of the illusion"......
now on to Tobi:
a few chapters later Tobi adds on to Danzo's comment and continues with "Danzo, its just as you said, its (Sasuke's unnamed genjutsu) no match for Itachi's Tsukiyomi, which can control can control time, [and he continues with his speech a few pages later] its a weak genjutsu [again giving Sasuke's illusion no name] that doesn't last long. But the trick is knowing when to use it."
note when he said that emphasis is on Sasukes right ms eye and black and white.
Tobi is adding on to what Danzo said so they are both speaking about the same unnamed genjutsu that Sasuke uses. Tobi, like Danzo, is comparing Sasukes unnamed genjutsu to Itachi's version of Tsukiyomi. Tobi says Itachi's Tsukiyomi controls length, and Sasuke's genjutsu, in comparison, is a weak genjutsu, why? because it doesnt last long unlike Itachis genjutsu which does last long or as long as Itachi wants it to last. Tobi is saying the unamed genjutsu is "weak" because it has a short duration. duration of time is the key here in letting us know that Itachi's Tsukiyomi was better and stronger because time Itachi could control time where as Sasuke's is weak because he cant manipulate time.
the genjutsu itself isnt weak in power but weak because of time, again Sasukes and Itachi's genjutsus are being compared by length of time and manipulation of time by both Tobi and Danzo. if this unnamed genjutsu by Sasuke, is being compared to Itachi's Tsukiyomi which Itachisi attributed to bieng able to control the time of his, is black and white as i noted in my 2nd clue and is being used by Sasukes right MS eye-the hypothetical Tsukiyomi eye, than what other genjutsu can this unnamed genjutsu be that Sasuke is using? it is Tsukiyomi
so basically Tobi is saying "Danzo your right, Sasukes Tsukiyomi is weak because its short, compared to Itachi's Tsukiyomi who could control length. but Sasuke got you cuz he used it at the right moment".
i wasnt as elaborate as i with Tobi as i was with Danzo but you should get it by now.
but the clues that show why Sasuke used Tsukiyomi was 1. he is using his right Mangekyou Sharingan and that is where his Tsukiyomi should be because his Amaterasu is in his left MS eye. 2. black and white and 3. context clues from both what Danzo and Tobi said.
Danzo did. i explained it above. how about you show me anywhere in the manga where anyone says that Sasuke's genjutsu IS NOT Tsukiyomi.
If what you were saying were true, Danzo would have said your tsukuyomi is nothing compared to Itachi's or words to that effect. Show me any manga page where anyone calls Sasuke's sharingan genjutsu as tsukuyomi.
many times people refered to Sasuke's Tsukiyomi as an illusion or genjutsu, which techinically is correct, Tsukiyomi is an illusion and genjutsu. Tobi said Sasukes Tsukiyomi is a weak genjutsu. why? because he compared it to Itachi's who could control length and Sasuke cant control legnth so his is short in length. logically that all makes sense does it not?
so you go find in the manga where someone specifically says that Sasukes genjutsu IS NOT Tsukiyomi.
lol you out of all people calling me a noob...............
Re read the manga, noob its obvious you just skim through it w/o understanding even the most simple and obvious points stated in it. Itachi already explained what tsukuyomi is,
so to help cure your retardation:
'only a sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me' meaning it would have been impossible for Danzo or Bee to escape from Sasuke's genjutsu if it were tsukuyomi, seeing as how neither of them are Uchiha by blood. I doubt anyone knew more about tsukuyomi than Itachi, the man who used the tech.
lol you fail soooo much . Itachi said "only a sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me"- WTF DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH SASUKE BEING DEFEATED?!??!?!? ITACHI WAS SPEAKING ABOUT HIMSELF AND HIMSELF ALONE!!! NOT SASUKE OR BEE OR DANZO.....
and mind you that this point was proven when Sasuke fought Itachi. Sasuke has a sharingan and the same blood as Itachi and defeated Itachi's Tsukiyomi which validated his point that "only a sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me ["me" as in MUTHA FUKKN ITACHI you noob]"