Re: Kakashi DID know he had MS
This is what you said:
part of the reason kakashi said he was prepared is because he asked guy how he fought itachi. having kamui does not protect you against tsukuyomi which is why he asked guy. and i said all his improvements which are more than just the MS.
Obviously you're saying that his Mangekyou Sharingan prepared him to face Itachi. If he was "unprepared" to fight Itachi and got mirked by Itachi's Tsukiyomi, obviously him being prepared now would mean what if the only difference is him having his Mangekyou? From your statements one can assume that you're drawing the conclusion that Kakashi having the Mangekyou 'counters/nullifies' Itachi's if previously he was "unprepared" but now he isn't and you claimed the only difference is the Mangekyou.
this why i made this this thread...he DID know he had it. why does he say "last time, i was unprepared, but im not like that this time". the only thing that changed between the timeskip was his MS
but if he didn't know he had it before, he would not have said " I was unprepared"
This therefore, makes no sense, you claim that he knew he had it this whole time but he waited until after Itachi mirked him wth it to train himself to be capable of using it. Let me tell you why this makes no sense: Jiraiya told him ahead of time that Akatsuki was coming for Naruto, including Itachi, so already there was the possibility of Kakashi having to fight Itachi. Kakashi had already assumed that Itachi unlocked the Mangekyou, hence why he said he will have to prepare for the worse since Itachi is a true heir of the Sharingan. Then Kakashi states that the only thing to counter the Mangekyou is another Sharingan eye... If he knew this ahead of time, why wouldn't he have trained himself to be capable of wielding the Mangekyou (having an evolved Sharingan would only boost his chances no?) to counter Itachi's eye if he thought that was what was necessary?
It's called drawing a parallel, and since he had his Sharingan in the Gaiden, he used Chidori twice (atleast from what they showcased --immediately after Obito died, and then when him and Rin were surrounded) so that still puts his chakra levels with the Sharingan, better than Sasuke's. I was establishing that his chakra levels were considerably high and people are overexaggerating the chakra drain from Kakashi using Sharingan. We've never seen Kakashi fight with the Sharingan and then say, "shit im done for". We see his is out of commission for a while after fighting Zabuza because he is rusty, he even admits to not being in shape. Even when fighting Itachi, after all that countering he wasn't in poor condition due to drain (it was that explosion that mirked half his body). The only thing he ever stated was that "I tire easily" but easily is judgemental and vague; he could easily be saying, "compared to an Uchiha, this takes more of a toll on my body..." amongst other things.
u have misunderstood so many points its funny. No one said anything about kakashi's chakra levels decreasing. u say kakashi spammed chidori during the kakashi gaiden yet he only used it twice. when people say kakashi has low chakra levels they are referring to the fact that his chakra is drained by his sharingan. before he gained his shraingan did u ever once see kakashi suffering from using too much chakra because in fact his chakra levels are indeed pretty good. but when he got the sharingan, because he is not a uchiha he costs him almost twice as much chakra to use it. its pretty simple, that whys (EVRYONE KNOWS THIS) he keeps it covered when not in use.
This is terrible because you just contradicted yourself, which brings me back to my initial point: the "calm down.. concentrate... blah" is moot because had the author not told us he awoken his sharingan earlier, we would have never assumed so, we would have no evidence to draw such a conclusion, and you even admitted to so that before the author tells us, we can only conclude that this was his first time awakening his sharingan.
about the haku fight. yes when u first see it nothing indicates that he already had it
because you don't really tend to notice but after you see him awaken it in his youth and than look back you actually notice that he does know it he had it. he probably did not know how to awaken it again because when he first awakened it, it was on the spur of the moment.
why do i say i think he knew he had it? look at this.
No, those are the words of one Dropout Uchiha who cannot compare to the person he is currently talking to. Before Sasuke awakened his Sharingan he was a confident prick still. Oh so now you're saying he "forgot the feeling" and he was trying to rekindle that feeling against Haku? Hmmm.... Why not try to rekindle that feeling when he first fought Zabuza? Why not try to rekindle that same feeling when he fought Kakashi during the Bell Exam?
these are the words of an uchiha who know they have not awakened their sharingan. the uchiha are not like the hyuga they don't have their sharingan from birth, they awaken their sharingan under stressful conditions. sasuke did not forget awakening his sharingan, what he forgot was the feeling of when he awakened it. which he was probably trying to remember vs haku which is why he says 'concentrate'.
Okay, you claimed that the characters, JUST KNOW about their abilities:
i never once said kakashi was training to use kamui during part 1, i said he trained during the timskip. i said he knew he had it but it was off limit due to the fact that he never had the chakra to use it. why? coz he fainted as soon as he awoken it. AND if you read my post correctly, you would have seen that i said he trained to improve his chakra control meaing he probably hadn't had enough practice to use kamui as the MS does make you blind so he wouldn't use it in training. now however, kakashi has used kamui plenty of times, meaning he has had more than enough practice.
Which would mean that Kakashi automatically knew he had Kamui when he awakened his Mangekyou, by your intelligence. How would he know the chakra capacity/control he needed to execute the jutsu if he had not been trying to use it? How would he know when he gained the precise chakra capacity/control needed to use the jutsu if he were not using it constantly, hence training? You claimed that he fainted here and that told him that he needed more chakra/control? Are you forgetting the fact that he was in a two-man cell, protecting someone who cannot really fight while being surrounded, having to fight a bunch of ?Jounin+? ranked shinobi? And then on top of that you had to kill one of your comrades that you risked your life to save earlier? The same person who your swore on your life to protect to your best friend? Dude, there was plenty of physical torment and emotional turmoil prior to unlocking the Mangekyou to make him 'faint'.
ok let me ask u something when uchihas unlocks MS they all have different abilities, how do they know what new abilities they have gained?, how does itachi know about tsukuyomi and amaterasu, how does shisui know about kotoamatsukami, how does obito know about kamui and how does madara know about susanoo. THEY JUST KNOW. try reading the thread before posting ...
I don't understand the logic behind your premise, you claim that "Kakashi always knew he had Kamui and the Mangekyou Sharingan, but he did not use it because he didn't have the chakra capacity/control and for some reason, he waited UNTIL Itachi mirked him before he decided to train himself to be able to do so". That's stupid, for what reason would he go "oh I have this awesome power that will allow me to not lose my teammates AGAIN, which I dread til this day, but I'm not going to train myself to use it... I have no good reason to do so though..." Why WOULDN'T Kakashi immediately begin "training to allow himself to use the Mangekyou" at worse, he goes blind earlier, big deal; especially considering we saw in the Kakashi Gaiden he completely lost his eye and was like "whatever, let's keep going". Considering he is living in the world of a shinobi, been in the midst of war, and faced death multiple times already, losing an eye seems a lot less trivial