Results 1 to 20 of 60

Threaded View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    It's Over Bogard's Avatar

    Bogard is offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    04/2012 - 07/2014

    Proof current Kakashi is stronger than alive Itachi(Explanation inside)

    It's just a discussion thread, so please try not to flame a lot if you can
    I wanted to share my opinion concerning a fight between these 2, and obviously you are not forced to agree with me, but this is what i think.

    If we are comparing both characters, i must say before that neither Kakashi nor Itachi are the type of ninjas to start of spamming their MS techniques. They are not like Madara, Sasuke or Obito. They are more the analytical type of ninjas prefering analysing the opponent and only using their MS techniques when there is need of or when they want to finish quickly if they find an opportunity, so i don't see them starting by spamming their MS techniques from the start, that's why i will start to compare them in their base form, but if someone has to start with his MS techniques first, i believe it's Kakashi since he already knows how strong Itachi is, so it's highly probable that he won't underestimated him and go all out

    Anyway i'll start with my analysis

    Taijutsu - Speed:

    We've already seen in part2 that Kakashi was able to keep up with him

    Jutsu speed:

    Itachi is always hyped because of his jutsu speed, but himself was fooled by Kakashi's jutsu speed in more than one occasion. Itachi was sure pretty fast, so fast that Kakashi had difficulties to follow like he says, but notice that he was still able to know all what Itachi did, to know where is the Kage Bunshin and even fooled Itachi with his own water clone in part1:

    Here you can see Itachi fooled by Kakashi's Kage Bunshin in part2:

    He even admits here that Kakashi did it too fast that he didn't realised in time and acknowledge that Kakashi is a skillfull jutsu user


    I believe Kakashi has the edge in this category simply because he has shown much more jutsus, and can manipulate 3affinities(4 if we count the katon he used in anime), when Itachi has 2(katon or suiton).

    Itachi has not shown to be very skilled in suiton however. I think his only suiton technique we've seen is the suiton underfooted:

    On the other hand, Kakashi's skills in suiton even impressed Kisame so much that he considered Kakashi's suiton on the same level of kirigakures ninjas. Even able to replicate Kisame's jutsu(an expert in water style technique) perfectly with the same power

    Like he also did against Zabuza as well(copying 2major suiton attacks perfectly)

    Later in the fight against Kakuzu, he has shown to be able to create a sourceless water style ninjutsu able to counter a combo of Katon and fuuton attacks

    Itachi on the other hand has shown katon attacks

    Or even incorporate katon in his shurikens while in close combat

    But since i believe Kakashi has displayed more powerful suiton attacks in terms of scale, plus the fact that suiton > katon, i believe Kakashi would have the edge

    Besides, Kakashi has also shown a doton wall which could also counter Itachi's katons along with other attacks as well

    He has also shown that he could take advantage of the scale of Itachi's katon to hide underground and surprise him

    He also has powerful raiton element techniques and his jutsu speed with this element is so fast that sometimes we don't even see him using handseals like in the latest chapter for example

    His raiden is really dangerous since Kakashi seems to be able to increase the scale of the jutsu as will and since he can travel with it, it would be difficult for an opponent to dodge. It was even so strong that it was able to cut through V2 Jinchurikis shrouds with relativ ease

    I can also talk about his long range lightning wolf he seems to be able to control over a certain distance

    Along with plenty other jutsus Kakashi has used or can use in this manga

    So i believe Kakashi would have a great advantage in ninjutsu to say the least


    This is probably Itachi's greatest weapon and it's obvious that he owns Kakashi in this category. His feats are incredible, even able to paralyse someone like Orochimaru in a genjutsu

    Or against Deidara also

    But all of them didn't had knowledge on it, like they also didn't had sharingan. Later we've seen that Deidara said he trained to counter Itachi's genjutsus after having some knowledge on it

    While less impressiv, Kakashi has also shown to be able to use Sharingan genjutsu even knocking out 2Anbus with it or fooling Zabuza to make him believe he sees future

    With Sharingan, Kakashi stated he could counter Itachi's genjutsus something that Itachi smh agreed with, only problem was that it wasn't a basic sharingan but a Mangekyou Sharingan technique, his powerful tsukuyomi

    So it's safe to say that Kakashi's sharingan could see thru non-MS Itachi's genjutsus without problems


    - Tsukuyomi: Here you can notice that he knows Tsukuyomi that much that he can explain advantage and side effects of the technique and Itachi himself praise him for his great analysis after just confronting his attack once

    - Amaterasu: Kakashi also already knows about Amaterasu
    He has even already seen it

    - Susanoo: Kakashi already saw it against Sasuke
    Or even currently against Madara, so it's a jutsu Kakashi already knows very well. He may not know about the items though(totsuka and yata)

    - Kamui: Itachi on the other hand doesn't know kamui(at least from what we know). Only thing he possibly knows is that Kakashi has MS

    Overall i think Kakashi has the knowledge advantage here

    MS counters:

    - Tsukuyomi:

    There is a possibility that even if smh Kakashi was caught by tsukuyomi, he could resist it via MS. In part1, he was able to withstand it and even managed to speak for a while before collapsing with a mere Sharingan, and that was a 72h tsukuyomi, so with MS, i think he would have greater resistant to it and possibly even counter it

    Also, like Kakashi says himself here, there is nothing to worry about if you avoid direct eye contact

    Kakashi developped another counter while fighting Itachi and his tsukuyomi and it relies on the use of kage bunshin and like i've stated earlier, it was even able to fool Itachi

    - Susanoo:

    All Susanoo jutsus are chakra based and we've seen that Kakashi was able to warp it away with kamui

    Now what i'm unsure is concerning the items. Are they material or immaterial? If they are material, then if Kakashi warps them, Itachi should not be able to use them anymore, which means his Susanoo's power would greatly decrease after that

    Other possible counters would be attacking him from underground. Like Gaara helped us to know, we know that Susanoo's weakness is from underground
    Something that someone as analytic as Kakashi who even already encountered Susanoo once(against Sasuke) would quickly notice and take into consideration. While in Susanoo, the users reaction time decreases like Kabuto mentioned and this is probably because of the strain on the user while maintaining it.

    Kakashi has already shown jutsus to attack from underground which could be very effectiv(here Itachi just reacted in time)

    Here you can notice that Deva didn't even had time to react only saved later by Shinra tensei, a jutsu you can use without even lifting a finger

    He has also shown a summoning jutsu tracking fang technique that could attack from underground as well

    So ultimately Kakashi's doton techniques should also help him to go through Susanoo

    - Amaterasu:

    Besides the fact that Amaterasu needs concentration, especially in Itachi's case, i believe Kamui is a great counter for Amaterasu. I see no reasons why Kamui couldn't just warp it away even if the kamui user is caught by the jutsu. We've already seen that Kakashi was prepared to warp it away with his Mangekyou
    Obito was caught by the jutsu while offguard and remained unarmed

    Something in kamui's databook always bothered me and it's this:
    [picture of Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingan]
    →One glare with the "Mangekyou Sharingan". The barrier's location and size can be specified at will.
    I always wonthered what they meant by "the barrier's location and size can be specified at will". Does that mean that while Kamui activated, Kakashi could redirect it everywhere he wants?

    Then came the latest chapter, where we've seen that Kakashi able to warp himself, which shows that he is able to control the location of the barrier so that he could pull himself in the space time distortion

    By doing this, he can either teleport in the other dimension to simply avoid it or modify the position of the space time distortion to warp everything around him(Amaterasu especially)

    Kage Bunshin is also a great counter for this jutsu, a jutsu that Kakashi uses very often in his fight

    - Kamui:

    Since it's a dojutsu attack that appears where the target aim at, i believe that Susanoo wouldn't change a thing especially when we know that the location and size of the barrier can change as will. The fact that Itachi doesn't even have knowledge on it would make it even more difficult for Itachi since he doesn't even know what he would be fighting

    Kamui's speed was so fast that even a self kamui user with Sharingan and Rinnengan activated, wasn't able to notice when BM Naruto got warped by it

    So ultimately i believe Itachi's only counter for Kamui is kage bunshin, and he has shown insane speed even able to fool SM Kabuto or Sharingan Sasuke with it. So it could be a great counter for his kamui. Problem is that, Itachi has no knowledge, so how why will he want to dodge an attack he doesn't even know? Also, Kakashi has shown to be able to identify Itachi's clones from the original since part1, so it's not even sure he could fool Kakashi with it

    Side effects of jutsus:

    In Itachi's case:

    After each MS attacks, Itachi feels the strain of his MS techniques and that since part1

    After the tsukuyomi, notice how tired Itachi is(symbols around him is to show someone almost out of breath), even sweating and Kisame even warns him from not using it too much

    And after Amaterasu, he needed to turn off his sharingan and take a rest somewhere for a while

    In part2, during the fight against Sasuke, you can notice that after the tsukuyomi he even had difficulties to stand and was holding his eye:
    After the second amaterasu he collapsed

    And his stamina decreased so much that he wasn't even able to avoid a katon attack later anymore

    Sasuke even noticed that as well("that second Amaterasu took a lot of you")

    And he died while holding Susanoo

    In Kakashi's case:

    It was also the case for Kakashi before who even died because of the use of his kamuis against Pain, but it seems that current Kakashi can resist against the strain much more better. Using Kamui 5 or 6times(along with other taxing jutsus like Raikiri, etc) and still standing while only collapsing during the 4th or 5th use of it

    What's even funny is that while fighting the tailed beasts, so before using all those techniques, he was stating to be worried concerning his chakra level probably after fighting one day long against swordsmen, white Zetsus, etc

    So with all that, i think it's safe to assume that Kakashi handles MS techniques and his side effects even better than alive Itachi. Kakashi's stamina eventhough it's nothing compared to ninjas like Naruto, Raikage or even Jiraya, is still greater than Itachi's going by feats and it's even supported by databook states which also consider Kakashi's stamina as greater(3 for Kakashi, 2,5 for Itachi)

    That's my reasoning why i believe current kakashi is stronger than alive Itachi. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Bogard; 11-13-2012 at 07:29 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts