Re: Itachi's full power
sigh i now regret for asking you to reply to me lol
i used sociopath as an example. correct Itachi still loved and even looked after his brother. but what about his whole clan? his mother and father? his best friend who was like a brother to him? his lover, neighbor, aunts and uncles? he murdered his whole family tree. and you cant argue that is sociopathic.
Originally Posted by Anub
and this is all 13 years earlier before and you are claiming he was sick from stress of it? thats bullshit Anub. seriously Itachi wouldnt be sick from that. he is a hardcore ninja, who severed his emotions for the sake of a mission and his village. he did not get sick from "stress". thats so pansy.
i never said it that anywhere it says it Anub. but it makes the most sense. that to push Sasuke to his limits, he couldnt go easy on him. instead of being biased think about that and why it would make sense.
Itachi had to back him into a corner. That doesn't mean that Itachi had to go 100% to do it right? It doesn't say anywhere that Itachi had to be at his best to back sasuke up into a corner.
lol stop. this whole paragraph is all bullshit. i proved you wrong. you cannot deny the manga. just admit you had it wrong man lol.
Here's why Itachi would "pursue" naruto : He used naruto as an excuse to enter the leaf.
He probably even requested to be sent after the fox. He let Danzo know he was alive by beating one of Konoha's best and then chased after naruto, but it was just for Kisame's sake. Otherwise, what would be the point in going to the leaf, beating up kakashi and then going back. That would have blown his cover and it would have been all over.
But by your theory, Itachi ACTUALLY tried to capture naruto but failed. Because Itachi only killed his clan to protect Konoha. Now he is dumber so he decided to take away Konoha's strongest weapon without a reason. Good thinking my friend. If you don't see the logic in this, I cannot make you see it. It's right there, you just have to be open to it.
but i will add that him asking to go after Naruto and using it as an excuse is plausible. very. but still he went after Naruto. him being interupted by Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenai, Guy, Sasuke and finally Jiraiya added to him losing alot of chakra from Tsukiyomis and Amaterasu was just another excuse for him to pull out.
but he was after Naruto. you was wrong. and dont try to make me the one that cant "see logic". you are so biased my friend and so stuck in your own ideas that you'd even ignore proof from the manga.
Zetsu knows alot. nobody knows everything. but Zetsu knew enough and very well that Itachi was not his normal self. he was able to recognize Itachis Tsukiyomi and he was very sure that Itachi normally had enough speed to dodge Sasuke's shadow shuriken.
Itachi never showed ANY emotion. Why would he show sings? Why would Kishi ruin one of the greatest surprises in the manga by having itachi fall to the floor every once in a while?
Zetsu has seen Itachi before, but when did Zetsu last see Itachi fight? Zetsu doesn't know everything... he saw Itachi fight better before and saw the difference when vs sasuke.
Zetsus reactions to Itachis fighting performance as i had explained in my last comment is a good reason to believe that the sickness was recent instead of long term.
wrong. evidently blindness progresses alongside with MS usage. not any sickness. what evidence is there to show Sasuke being sick? none. but there is plenty to show he is losing sight.
The fight between Kakashi + Naruto vs Itachi is proof enough that Itachi agreed with having his eye-sight deteriorated. Most likely his MS played the major part in his sickness. His sickness progressed alongside his MS
if the sickness is related to MS than it would be something that wouldnt effect the user immediatly as you would want to believe.
but than again sickness from MS is all a theory.
lol i called you a fan. you called yourself a fanboy lol.
Actually, being such a good "fanboy" (that I have been called before by random users), I tend to notice that Itachi was kind-hearted and not at all a typical shinobi. Look at any flashbacks of him. Kakashi is stone cold compared to Itachi... I can really believe that stress caused that, because he is still human (well a character-human). And he suffered a lot obviously.
Itachi was kind hearted. kind hearted to kill the women that birthed him and the man that raised him and kill his family and friends and the guy that was his best friend and like a brother to him. etc.
but seriously to say the guy who chose his village over his own flesh and blood, makes Kakashi look stone cold? dont you feel completely wrong by even thinking that? only aspect of Itachi being kind is sparing his younger brother and planning on making him the avenger of the Uchiha name but even that is not saying much. he killed his own family man. thats not cool. even for a village. i would choose my family over my country in a heartbeat.
and Itachi is more than human. he is a shinobi, once an anbu who were trained to pick the completion of a mission over the life of a comrade, and he is an Akatsuki. he obducted and killed jinchurikis who had done nothing to him. Itachi was a hero to his village but also a betrayer to his family.
and he is cold, he would only have to be cold to kill his own family. stress over the genocide of the Uchihas was not an issue for Itachi.
never did i said Kabuto doesnt control them. if you must quote me do so correctly. i chose my words very carefully cuz i knew you'd try to say something like that
What do you mean Kabuto doesn't control them? There a line in almost every chapter now in which a resurrected shinobi complains that he cannot move his body on his on and someone is controlling him...
And Itachi will most likely not fight because he will find a way to break from Kabuto's control like Hanzo did.
Itachi having the same intelligence? How? His mind does not work in harmony with his body, being an edo tensei. Kabuto was surprised that Hanzo broke out
of his control.
yes Kabuto does control some aspects of some of the ninjas. he forces them to go to destinations, forces them to fight. some of the edos (good ninjas) he would completely erase their personalties to prevent them from being released from talk no jutsu, and the others (bad ninjas) he wouldnt need to erase their personalites cuz they will willingfully want to kill other ninjas.
but Kabuto does not control how they fight. that is definite. those he erase personalities he gives them one cammand and thats to kill. and from their the edos do the killing in how they personally do it best. the bad ninjas wouldnt even need that command. example the Kin Gin and Kakuzu. they seemed very in control in attacking when they wanted to attack.
and my biggest examples also proved my points when i mentioned Haku and Hanzo.
btw you seriously gotta be joking to say Itachi will find a way to resist Edo Tensi. you must really think Itachi is a god huh. he will not break ET. he will most likely be one of those whos personality is completely erased like Zabuza and Haku and go on a killing spree.
btw Hanzo did not break Kabutos control. 1st off there is no proof. 2nd you cannot prove it either cuz you perception of Edo Tensi is wrong. Hanzo had some freedom in his control, had a change of heart and decided to off himself. Kabuto who came to realize that Hanzo was jepardizing himself quickly switch to erase Hanzos personality and turn him into a mindless zombie. but it was too late.
btw if you seriously think that Kabuto controls every single aspect of the characters even to their own fighting style, than you must believe that Kabuto controls even the words they say too huh?
seriously Anub. you are wrong in this arguement here.
Itachi giving Sasuke a "weaker" version of Tsukiyomi is theory.
Before, he only shower sasuke images that didn't involve his body. This time, he actually caused Sasuke mental pain. For all we know he went soft when seeing how sasuke suffered and decided to break the tsukyiomi, but make it look like sasuke did it. But be real: Itachi = the best
genjutsu user in the naruto universe. Sasuke was trained by Orochimaru, who doesn't know much genjutsu. Do you really think that Sasuke, an amateur genjutsu user, without proper genjutsu training could defeat the best genjutsu user? If you say "yes", you are biased (just so you know).
Sasuke breaking Tsukiyomi genjutsu with a regular sharingan is proof. i will end it on that note.
lol your comparing Minato to Itachi?!? lol wooooow. well if your going to do that compare how Minato handled Madara to how Itachi handled Madara.
good tactician = used his sharingan and chakra to a minimum, while still winning the fight. How many fighters have done that before? From what I know, just one: Minato. Itachi and Minato found ways to finish the fight early and they were both geniuses.
anyways that is not in your definition, a good tactitian. Kakashi, Shikamaru and even Naruto has shown qualities of a good tactitian. Itachi has not. he has only showned that he is extremely powerful. and he able to pwn powerful ninjas with one move just proves he is extremely powerful, not that hes a great tactitian or super smart.
quick win? Minato was also a tactitian who used brains to defeat oponents. not brawns like Itachi. his ability to analyxed his opponents, the battle situations and come up with a stragedy to win is shown in Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack.
I gave Minato as an example of shinobi that doesn't use genjutsu and still goes for the quick win.
when going to the battle field the Leaf was surrounded, but he had the leaf ninjas throw his signature kunais at the enemies. it would allow him to FTG to the enemies and defeat them all. that was genuis.
agaisnt Madara, in a short period of time he was able to not only come to the conclusion that the masked ninja was Madara, but time Madaras space time and counter it.
whats the most complicated stradegy has Itachi have to come up with to defeat anybody? dropping dead for Sasuke?
if Itachi didnt plan to lose than he would win. does that answer your question?
Figure this out then: If Itachi didn't plan the fight, what % of a chance would you give that the fight just happened to end at that moment?
and do you agree Itachi did not plan the fight with Sasuke, detail for detail, as you put it.
i completely agree with you in everything in red...
Itachi planned a break from tsukyiomi lol. Pointless if the whole thing would have ended in genjutsu. He OBVIOUSLY
planned on Sasuke dodging amaterasu. Why use one of the strongest ninjutsu on a person you don't really want to kill? Thin logically, man. Kirin was a surprise to Itachi. The fight ended with Itachi dieing beucase he over-strained himself. Itachi PLANNED to die in this fight. So he knew how much he could push himself and how much chakra he needed for each MS ability. He also knew that if he was to face sasuke and get oro out, he needed to win before losing. So Itachi won the fight actually because he achieved what he wanted and then before dieing he activated amaterasu in sasuke's eyes to go off when seeing Madara, all because he anticipated it. So everything was planned, except for Kirin and a few moves.
You need to see that.
"you arent as smart as i thought you were " - my IQ proves otherwise.
everything else im not too sure but you make great points i'll admit. i would like to think Sasuke broke Tsukiyomi by his own skills, and dodged Amaterasu by his own skills. but its plausible that Itachi eased on the Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu attacks by how you put it. so im on the fence about it.
lol wait what?!?!
How about this?
Itachi failing = Not pushing sasuke far enough to release Oro (that would have meant that Sasuke was not cured from Oro and Itachi's whole "save sasuke" plan would have been ruined you should agree) and not implanting amaterasu in sasuke's eyes.a
Itachi was stronger than Sasuke, even in his sickness, but he also couldn't allow sasuke to finish the fight early. You need to understand the dilemma here: 1. let sasuke finish him off earlier and keep some of his chakra so that he can maybe escape from Tobi, but still risk Oro taking over him at anytime during his future fights, or 2. drain sasuke's chakra completely and find a way to still protect sasuke even with a low chakra (by implanting amaterasu into his eyes so that he would have a strong defense when being captured)
. That right there is an extremely good choice.
i agree fully but i dont even know what was the point of that paragraph!
cool.. btw i typed slower and may have less typos.
ok.. cant really say i care if you respond to him or not. by your desciption we are actually talking about a ninja in their prime. a period where a ninja is at his best. Nagato when he faced Hanzo (and i mean when Yahiko was killed, not when Hanzo was killed) is not stronger or better than when he faced Naruto. why? because of experience. i would say Itachi was at his best before he became terminally sick. i would say he wasnt sick until maybe a little bit after Gaara was rescued. even with Itachi being partially blind he mastered MS, and had the sealing sword and shield (wtf is the names?).
I won't respond to pemayozer. It's that simple. But if YOU would like to know, we are talking about theoretical full power. That means the best the fighter has ever been, with his skills and experience intact. So I'm not sure about Nagato's past, but either way, Nagato at full power is stronger than the one that faced Naruto.
lmaoo when you said Itachi can beat anyone for a second i was like "wtf?!?!" and than you explained Tsukiyomi and i'll admit you have a point. but even Madara had Tsukiyomi and he was beaten by Hashirama. Tsukiyomi is not invisible. no attack or defense is.
And why do you say Itachi could never beat Pain? Is Pain really THAT strong? No. Itachi can beat anyone in the naruto universe (easy there itachi haters, I'm not saying he will beat anyone, but with tsukyiomi, he can actually win any fight if he somehow gets a glimpse of an opponent's eye). So even if you think Pain has the advantage, he still doesn't win 100%, because Itachi is way too strong for that. Shinobi like Itachi, Minato, Pain, Madara, Sasuke and Naruto ALWAYS HAVE A FIGHTING CHANCE WHEN UP AGAINST ANY OPPONENT
. So you saying that Itachi can "never" beat Pain is you being extremely biased. I am a fan of Itachi but mostly because he is such a great character. And I have defended Itachi on these forums in the past few months more than anyone else. And even I
admit that there is a good chance of Itachi losing the fight. Overall, I think Itachi wins, but the odds are 70-30% if they have full knowledge about each other. And to Pain's credit, he's got the highest chance of winning against Itachi out of all the other Shinobi (maybe except EMS Sasuke, EMS Madara and Minato). Without knowledge, Itachi vs Pain would be 50%-50%, as in WAAAAAY too hard to predict, so a coinflip. Accept this and we can finish debating Itachi vs Pain and get back to debating Itachi's full power.
and of course Pain doesnt win 100% but he still has the best chance of beating Itachi that is for sure. Pain is that strong lol. whatever percentage of power level you think or assume Itachi is add 50 to Pain lol.. Itachi wouldnt have any knowledge of Pain. so Pain would always win, with knowledge (for hypothetical purposes) it would be closer but Pain would still have a higher chance of winning just due to his vast amount of jutsus, incredible amout of chakra and power.
And one more thing: please post your own percentages in the same way I did. Just curious to see how much weaker you think Itachi at full power is.
idk if i could put a number on it.
one thing is fact is that the strongest we've ever seen Itachi was fighting Sasuke. and 1. he was sick and 2. he planned to lose. so with those 2 factors its only logical to assume that Itachi is stonger or better than his performance agaisnt Sasuke.
only clue we have to even determine that is him unable to dodge the shuriken and Zetsu implying that while healthy he would easily have dodge it.
so healthy Itachi is much faster.
also his illness was very evident when using Amaterasu and Sasunoo. his stamina may be alot higher while healthy but how much higher is tricky to determine.
i think about when he visited the Leaf and the reason he gave to Kisame for retreating from Jiraiya is his usage of his MS techniques in one day (2 Tsukiyomis and an Amaterasu). this implies Itachi was drained from using the MS, implies he would have a better chance fighting Jiraiya while at his best and not drained, than again Itachi may not even wanted to capture Naruto in the first place (As you would want to believe and argue). sooo endless possibilities
another clue to his true power is when he couldnt even use MS techniques when fighting Kakashi and friends because he was at 30% chakra. if MS takes that much chakra that at 30% he cant even use it, and Itachi was drained when using 2 Tsukiyomis and Amaterasu when agaisnt Kakashi, Jiraiya etc but he used Tsukiyomi, 2 or 3 Amaterasus and full Sasunoo when sick than i have no clue and dont even know where to start on how to calculate Itachis full potential.
my only guess is that when fighting Sasuke he had to push himself very hard. cuz 3 MS techniques made him want to retreat from Jiraiya. cuz MS takes about 70% of his chakra and stamina to use. but with that conclusion than it would mean Itachi was strongest when sick??
lol idk.. but one thing i am certain is that at full health Itachi can dodge shurikens lol.. everything else is speculative.
what do you think?