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  1. #1
    Senior Member super michael's Avatar

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    About Shinigami and hollows

    I was wondering is it possible for a Shinigami to become a hollow and then become a Gillian till he reach vastor lord? Is it possible for the vastor lord to become a Arrancer? Will this Arrancer be able to use Bankai and resurrections?

    Can Arrancer like Neliel become a Shinigami if she goes to Soul Society and train with the Shinigami? Since Neliel helped Ichigo would she be welcome to live in soul society?

    In the manga does Ichigo lose white zangetsu and old man zangetsu?

    Here one thing I don't get when Grand Fisher masked was removed he turned into a arrancer, but Orihime brother mask was broken by Ichigo yet he didn't turn into a arrancer why is that?

    Why is it that Orihime brother loses control but Arrancer like Neliel is in control? Grand Fisher has control of himself.

    So lets say a human soul can choose to become a shinigami if he wants, but a hollow and arrancer can't become shinigami even if they want to.

    Why is it that the shinigami forbids them to gain hollow powers? I mean imagine this if the Shinigami had hollow powers like Tousen, Ichigo and the Vizard then that makes them more interesting with unique mask.

    Imagine Kenpachi with hollowfication power or Yamamoto, Ukitake and Shunsui. Shinigami learns bankai which can have huge drawback or kidos the same yet no issue, I see no reason why they don't allow shinigami to gain hollow powers.

    The shinigami has seens the Vizard, Ichigo and Tousen can use hollow powers with no issue.
     
         

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    Tantalus Thief's Avatar

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    Re: About Shinigami and hollows

    Quote Originally Posted by super michael View Post
    I was wondering is it possible for a Shinigami to become a hollow and then become a Gillian till he reach vastor lord? Is it possible for the vastor lord to become a Arrancer? Will this Arrancer be able to use Bankai and resurrections?
    Yeah it should be. For example if the visoreds lose control then they'd turn into hollows. They would need to evolve to vasto lorde somehow. I think it depends on the shinigami. High level shinigami like Ichigo can transform into vasto lorde but shinigami like Kensei turned into adjuchas (hollow lvl before vasto lorde).

    A vasto lorde can become an arrancar. Ulquiorra and Hallibel are definite examples. \

    Not sure if an Arrancar can use a bankai when they already have a ressurecion which is their shikai/bankai. Maybe they can replace their ressurecion for a bankai like how Tousen got a ressurecion instead of his old shikai/bankai. What's weird is Tousen's ressurecion had a diffirent name than his old bankai and shikai.

    Can Arrancer like Neliel become a Shinigami if she goes to Soul Society and train with the Shinigami? Since Neliel helped Ichigo would she be welcome to live in soul society?
    She is a hollow so she can't become a real shinigami. She does have a zanpakuto but I'm not sure if it purifies souls like the ones normal soul reapers have.
    In the manga does Ichigo lose white zangetsu and old man zangetsu?
    In one chapter Yhwach took Ichigo's powers and Ichigo himself said his two powers were fading away but shortly after a fullbringer callled Tsukihima restored his bankai. So I think he still has it.
    Here one thing I don't get when Grand Fisher masked was removed he turned into a arrancer, but Orihime brother mask was broken by Ichigo yet he didn't turn into a arrancer why is that?
    Didn't Orihime's brother use Ichigo's Zanpakuto which purifies hollows?

    Why is it that Orihime brother loses control but Arrancer like Neliel is in control? Grand Fisher has control of himself.
    Orihime's brother was less evolved and likely a younger hollow than them.
    So lets say a human soul can choose to become a shinigami if he wants, but a hollow and arrancer can't become shinigami even if they want to.

    Why is it that the shinigami forbids them to gain hollow powers? I mean imagine this if the Shinigami had hollow powers like Tousen, Ichigo and the Vizard then that makes them more interesting with unique mask.
    Hollows are seen as enemies and overall bad things. So it's understandable if soul society doesn't want shinigamis to become more like them. Not to mention it's not an easy process since they have to control their hollow. Remember Ichigo went berserk against Byakuya and Ulquiorra. Imagine if Kenpachi loses it. Heck his bankai describes him as being unconscious.
     
         

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    Senior Member super michael's Avatar

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    Re: About Shinigami and hollows

    Here in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/5/12 we see Orihime brother with part of his mask broken. Here is the chapter how Orihime mask broke http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/3/19 and here http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/3/20
     
         

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    Re: About Shinigami and hollows

    Quote Originally Posted by super michael View Post
    Here in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/5/12 we see Orihime brother with part of his mask broken. Here is the chapter how Orihime mask broke http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/3/19 and here http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/3/20
    ok. There must more to the process than breaking the mask. I remember Nnoitora took off the masks of Nel's fraccion to get her angry but they still ended up fine.
    http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Pesche_Guatiche
     
         

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    Senior Member super michael's Avatar

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    Re: About Shinigami and hollows

    Quote Originally Posted by Tantalus Thief View Post
    ok. There must more to the process than breaking the mask. I remember Nnoitora took off the masks of Nel's fraccion to get her angry but they still ended up fine.
    http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Pesche_Guatiche
    Actually Pesche and Dondochakka modified their appearance to keep Neliel from remember her past when he became her child form. That means they put a mask on to hid their identity.
     
         

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    Re: About Shinigami and hollows

    Its a bit tricky. All specifics aside, the individual needs to transform into an actual Hollow, regardless of being Vizard or possessing the spirit of one inside them like Ichigo. From there, they can probably continue evolving into Gillians and eventually a Vasto Lorde.

    Arrancar are the closest Hollows can get to becoming Shinigami without their spiritual being getting decimated and reformed by the Hogyoku, which may not even be possible to begin with.

    Ichigo doesn't really "lose" them. At several stages one becomes more dominant over the other, but in the final arc he makes peace with his identity as a real Shinigami and his latent powers and heritage so he relies less on their powers and more on his own.

    Ichigo never killed Grand Fisher, so he had time to retreat to Hueco Mundo and become an imperfect Arrancar. Orihime's brother did actually die to Ichigo's Zanpakuto, so his soul was purified and sent to Soul Society.

    Correct.

    Shinigami can't naturally become Hollows, because their spiritual makeup is different. It's the same thing as humans trying to become another animal. The Hogyoku is the only way to do it, but doing so warps their mind and makes them more beast-like, which would have happened to Shinji and the other Vizards had Urahara not stabilised their condition. The process of getting a mask is too dangerous to justify the end results. Those who have a mask are lucky.

    In all cases bar Ichigo, the Hogyoku was used to hollowfy people, and that is a risky process which only Aizen is capable of doing with the highest chance of success. Ichigo also almost died as well when he got his mask.
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: About Shinigami and hollows

    No. Hollows are human souls that get corrupted, not Shinigami. A Shinigami cannot turn into a Hollow naturally. Ichigo is the exception, because he's special. The closest a normal shinigami can be is a Vizard, and even then they need Urahara's Deus ex Machina to survive.

    An Arrancar cannot become a Shinigami under any know circumstances.

    Ichigo does not "Lose" his Zangetsu's, but they do stop talking after he gets his true zanpakuto. And he may have lost Old Man Zangetsu after Yhwach absorbed his quincy powers.

    Grand Fisher's mask was broken by another Arrancar that we see at Hueco Mundo, so we can assume Aizen was involved with the Hogyouku. Acidwire/Sora's mask was only broken by Ichigo hitting it with a sword. If it helps, he got a lot more reason than most random hollows and was able to use a Zanpakuto, albeit only to stab himself.

    Shinigami are not allowed to use Hollow powers because it's extremely dangerous and Hollows are the natural enemies of Shingami.

    I Imagine disapointment, then Yamamoto at his normal power level.
     
         

  8. #8
    Senior Member super michael's Avatar

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    Re: About Shinigami and hollows

    Ichigo is the only Shinigami to turn full hollow with a bankai against Ulquiorra, while Tousen uses resurrection to turn into a hollow but has no bankai.

    Ichigo in his fight against Yhwach was the first time Ichigo did not a cero but Cero Oscuro merged with Getsugatensho.

    The Espada that has Kaien body is the only one to have Shikai and Resurrection, too bad Kaien didn't have Bankai that would of made the Espada OP.
     
         

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