Re: itachi vs danzo
There's some really made up stuff here, so much it's actually embarassing.
What? Where did this made up claim come from? Purely made up on your part. Moreover, Itachi's long range genjutsu clones are made of crows, and have physical form. They're clones as much as they are genjutsu, and clones can definitely be affected by genjutsu. If Danzo tries Koto on a clone or long range genjutsu clone, then he wastes it, and it's gone.
Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks
if danzos caught in one then he says "release" and tries again.
Itachi knows what Izanagi is... as soon as he sees Danzo make the seals, he'll know what's up. He'd also know, because he'll be able to pick up the abnormal amount of chakra Danzo has, as well as the different colours coming off his arm and think "gee, that's odd". Plus Itachi, who was dead when Danzo fought Sasuke, already knew Hashi's cells would boost Shi Sui's eye (which Danzo had), so it's pretty easy for him to guess Danzo would try to use them to bolster Shi Sui's power. Moreover, he's going to figure out damn quickly when Danzo doesn't die.
itachi wouldnt know danzo had izanagi,
1) I've already explained why Danzo can't "wait", because Itachi has the potential to one-shot him (before he even has a chance to activate Izanagi). If he waits, Itachi can kill him instantly with genjutsu (and unlike Sasuke's "infinitely inferior" genjutsu, one hit will see Danzo go down, Izanagi or not. One hit with the one-shot sword (that Danzo won't even recognise until it's too late) will also finish him. One shot with Shi Sui's eye will finish Danzo. So Danzo risk instant death if he tries to "wait Itachi out". If he acts right away, he might be throwing away his only chance to win. In that game of chess, I'm taking Itachi every time.
therefore due to sharingan perception, he can know if its a clone, or deal damage to itachi so he knows its the real one. genjutsu itachis turn to crows as do crow bunshins. danzo waited till the end of his battle with sasuke to resort to KA so he was sure he would be hitting a real person with it.
2) Danzo didn't wait because he was being careful, he waited because he'd just used Koto against Mifune, and couldn't use it again so soon.
Like when all 5 Kage thought they were beating on Madara, but actually sealed a clone? Or like when the 2nd Mizukage was fooled (twice) by Gaara's sand clones? Or like the time Onoki, Gaara and Naruto were fooled by Mu's double? Or like the time Jiraiya used his best genjutsu on Pain's fake bodies, and was killed? Or maybe you mean like the time Sasuke was fooled by Deidara's clay clone. Etc, etc. People can be fooled (and have been by Itachi's clones and genjutsu's before). Danzo has no way to be sure, so yeh, he could easily be tricked into wasting it... this is Itachi we're talking about here. A guy who is beyond a Kage level himself.
but since sasuke didnt rely on clones he would have won if it was recharged from the beginning. a kage level shinobi wouldnt go braindead and use their best move on a clone like a moron.
That makes no sense though, and always bothered me, because Shi Sui tells us it works (he was going to use it to end the coup), and gives it to Itachi, and since then we know of no time Itachi uses it. Itachi also hasn't been dead long in the comic book world, so it makes no sense that he'd give something to Naruto that wouldn't work, when he'd potentially need it ASAP (and did need it ASAP). How long has even passed since Itachi's death? A month? Two? It's also been less than 10 years since Shi Sui's death, so if the eye had been used in that time, it wouldn't be active (as it so clearly was, when Naruto used it). It's either an inconsistent plot hole of Kishi's, or we just read it in a way which suggests Itachi didn't want it wasted "given the 10 year use), and preferred to try and help Sasuke genuinely change, with Koto as the back up plan.
bee: so ya fool why didnt you use it on sasuke
itachi: i couldnt. shisuis eyes take 10 years to recharge, discounting hashirama senju chakra.
so the eye was useless the entire time alive itachi ahd it otherwise why not just use it on him before dying and save himself the trouble of worrying whether obito will turn sasuke to the dark side?
The more powerful the genjutsu, the harder it is to see through, and nobody has better genjutsu than Itachi... we've seen very powerful Sharigan users fail to see through his illusions (like Sasuke). The idea Danzo can see through it (when he's already got to be careful not to overuse his eye, and only pulls it up to use it in a limited way), is hopelessly optimistic. Danzo is effected multiple times by Sasuke's genjutsu, but he's going to easily see through Itachi's? I don't think so. And unlike Sasuke's genjutsu, one shot kills Danzo (see scan above).
uh...sharingan? also genjutsus are severely obvious.
Itachi never uses subtle genjuts?!!! Ridiculous, not worthy of a reply. I'm also not sure I see the subtlety in Sasuke using a genutsu to make Danzo think Itachi is burning him with Ameratsu.
sasuke used a subtle one to make danzo think he had more izanagi time, but itachi never used subtle genjutsus. all of his genjutsus are blatant mindrape attempts.
Um, no. Izanagi can be used to connect the users dreams to reality, but it isn't magic... the user has to make the changes through conscious choice... and that's hard to do when you've been mind raped and are suffering from unbearable psychological trauma. Izanagi doesn't alter the mental state of the user, merely the physical reality around them. Danzo will be lying on the floor drooling the second he's hit with Itachi's "mind rape" genjutsu. Assuming he's not trapped in Izanami instead.
anything tsukiyomi does to danzo is instantly made worthless by izanagi reversing.
Sasuke and Kakashi were in hospital for weeks on the verge of death because of the psychological trauma. Oro wasn't being tortured, if Itachi felt like it, he would have done so... Oro down for the count.
sure itachi can put danzo in the finger one or the stakes one.but when has that ever worked? didnt stop orochimaru from moving to cancel it. and it only stopped naruto cos he was a noob.
Because this forum isn't about making up abilities to prop your character? And in this case, it's hopelessly optimistic, counter-intuitive inventions... "how do we know Danzo doesn't have genjutsu's that can affect Itachi...?!" Are you serious... if I'm going to give a character the genjutsu to affect the best genjutsu user we've seen in the manga, I'm going to want some evidence for it... for which there is zero.
anyway why do you think danzo doesnt have genjutsus of his own? if itachi cant know when and how danzo is gonna use KA how cna he prepare for it?
Well, for one we've seen Itachi make clones so fast nobody can credit it's possible (or even noticed him do it), and more than once. So yeh, he can definitely do it. But Danzo needs to use seals to activate Izanagi anyway, so you're asking a dumb question: "why can't Danzo use seals, acivate Izanagi, and then move behind Itachi before he can use seals". The first answer is "um, because Itachi is faster with seals?". The next one is that Izanagi doesn't allow "teleportation" from what we've seen. Rather, Danzo is able to relocate his body after it's destroyed (but not otherwise). Given we're told Danzo has an 'incomplete' form of Izanagi as is, we can't just grant such abilities to him.
how can he do seals and make a clone or genjutsu faster than danzo can use izanagi, "teleport" behind him and use shisuis eye on him? if itachi tries to beat danzo forcefully, how is he going to last long enough to use up the 10 sharingans when his stamina sucks ass?
Danzo knows nothing about the Totsuka blade or Yata mirror either, and if he thought Sasuke's defence was tough, wait till he gets a load of Itachi's... all of which ignores the fact Itachi will be ending the fight before Danzo gets 10 minutes.